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I’ve realized I can’t change my religious wife. I think the power of imagination ultimately is what people are tapping into with their religions. Imagination is real, therefore on some level their god(s) are real. How can you stop someone’s imagination? You can’t. I think the only thing we can do is let people believe in their god(s) but their God can really only represent something in life that is reasonable true. If it represents something that is evil and hurtful that is when I draw the line. For instance, if she makes fun of a family member who is gay I will tell her don’t say that, I won’t tolerate that. What are your thoughts?

SalC 6 Aug 25
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I'm in the same boat. She thinks LGBTQ+ community is sick because they chose to be that way. I asked her when exactly we were presented with that option. She thinks they chose to be gay as a choice of free will. It's so frustrating.

I feel what you're going through but I think it ultimately helps us having someone so close with views in such opposition.

Not that I don't wish for days where my wife's views were less nutty. I can't take Bill Gates mark of the beast forced vaccination comments anymore and just have to walk away.

I think we’re married to the same wife.🤣

@SalC Disclaimer: This is a serious question for the people who have spouses that have such beliefs & not intended to sound disrespectful. How is it possible to be in a relationship with someone who's views are in such stark contrast to your own? How is an emotional bond created in this situation?

Free will has nothing to do with any person being gay. Its basis is in the fact that you must worship your god by free will because he will not force his salvation upon you. This is because you are not a robot. From there the logical premise is that we all have a limited free will that is based on education and freedom of choice. Again, nothing about being gay, lesbian, or LGBTQ.

@Nunya we don't have to have the same views as the people we love.

@bragadm Perhaps not the same views, but I personally could not love someone with such hate filled views. You also seem to share the traits of open-mindedness & tolerance. I was just curious how one navigates the daily cognitive dissonance? Perhaps in a familial relationship where daily interaction isn't required I could maintain some sense of love for the person, but I don't think I could if I had to deal with that daily.

@Nunya as I said it's frustrating some times but the religious mind is susceptible to the influence of fear which sometimes manifests in angry or hateful ideas and intolerant comments. It takes work to fight against it and some days it feels like a losing battle given the willingness of so many to accept lies and fables instead of evidence based reality. But if we can't be champions of the truth and teachers of skeptical thinking in our own homes then how can we expect to help teach and influence our broader communities.

@bragadm I admire your idealism, but can't say that I share it. I've tried for decades with everything I've got to positively influence members of my own family & have barely made a dent. This has convinced me that I'm wasting my effort on something that is so deeply programmed into most humans that it cannot be changed. It's time to focus my effort on things that can.

@Nunya I can certain understand your perspective. I wouldn't call mine idealism at all. I see us in a battle to protect the future... Not sure where in the world you are... But I'm in the US and this country is headed down a very dangerous path where people are allowed to have their own facts. If people like us don't speak up and fight against lies and alternate realities then we're going to be a country full of uniformed and frightened masses that think the world is motionless and flat and brought into existence 6000 years ago by an invisible genie. I could give up the fight and leave people to their Qanon and religious extremist echo chambers but I'd rather stay in the fight and continue to be the voice of skepticism and reason.

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As long as she does not try to change you and is a good person that is all that is really important .I have been married to a believer for 36 years and we agree on everything including political views .Only a fanatical and closed minded atheists,agnostic,etc would find this a problem ,which is no different than a fanatical religious individual that will not except a nonbeliever.

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My sympathies, and best wishes. Definitely draw the line, and be consistent in doing so.

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Setting a better example is all anyone can do.

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Consider expanding both her and your own perspective with psilocybin. Maybe you can meet in the middle...

Hmmmm .... My cream of mushroom soup could use a little more "flavor". 🙂

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The imagination is not real, the word imagination is a descriptor of a certain kind of thought, it is not real outside of that mind of the person having the thought. So gods are in no way real based on the relevance of the imagination.

As far as the rest, I simply hold "the religious" to the same standards I do everyone else. If someone publicly espouses hate or ignorance because of their "religious beliefs" or any other flawed source, I will call them out for it publicly. I see no reason to allow people's delusions to negative affect the lives of others unchallenged.

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If she says there is a god, then she has to proved objective evidence that a god exist. You can lead a theist to reason, but you can't make him/her think.

No she doesn’t!

@Geoffrey51
If she makes a claim that a god exist, then she has to proved evidence.

@xenoview Who to?

@Geoffrey51
To anyone she makes the claim too.

@xenoview So if she says she drives a Ferrari does she need to justify that?

@Geoffrey51
Seeing is believing, so yes she would need to produce the car as evidence.

@xenoview But would you care?

@Geoffrey51
Like I said, if she makes the claim, I want evidence it's real.

@xenoview But does it affect your life if she has a Ferrari or not?

@Geoffrey51 If my wife had bought a ferrari without telling me it would be my business, if she was lying about it to me it would be my business.
What she chooses to believe is not my business but it would lessen my respect for her critical faculties if she chose to believe something without evidence and if that belief not only took over her life but affected mine, then it would be my business too.

@LenHazell53 But only if she were your wife I suspect. If she were Mrs Jones from Basildon I imagine it would be of no consequence.

@Geoffrey51 I would if she were part of those trying to turn her bigoted religious shit in to legislation.

@Geoffrey51
It doesn't bother me if she has the car. But she would still have to show it to me to prove she had it.

1

It can be really hard to be married to a believer and the more extreme their beliefs, the harder it is. I'm now divorced. He made it very difficult because not only were our views monumentally different, only HIS views were the acceptable ones and if i didn't comply (which i didn't because i didn't believe in god to begin with not to mention some of his beliefs were really messed up) he would call me rebellious. In the end it was a way for him to feel superior over me and eventually I was done with it. We had almost nothing in common because everything was influenced by his beliefs.

He wasn't fully honestly about the extent of his beliefs when we dated. At the time he wasn't going to his church and he was desperate to find a wife. He was 35 when we met. I was 18. Lied about his age at first too. I found out later on. So many red flags I ignored I know. My home life was pretty crappy. It's been good to get out from under that and figure out my own values and do the things i want to do without constantly being told I'm being rebellious.

I know not everyone believer is like that though. There is a spectrum from where the belief is there but the person isn't fanatical about it to the hard core they will make sure everyone in their household goes along with that belief whether they like it or not. And it becomes a matter of what you can tolerate.

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I guess I was lucky, when I left the LDS I feared it would end my marriage. However my wife loved me enough to ask why I felt I had to leave and when I told her she looked in to my reasons with an open mind and decided that I was justified, she followed me out of the church a couple of months later.
I think it came down to her loving me more than the church and so trusting me to have a good reason, she then took her own time to do some serious research and then decided I was right.
She was also wise enough to know it was a pointless exercise to try and bully someone in to pretending to believe something they don't.
Our relationship is all the better for religion being out of our lives and we are fast approaching our Pearl wedding anniversary.

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My question is how is it possible to sustain an emotional bond with someone who's world view is in such opposition to your own? No disrespect intended - it would just be absolutely impossible for me to do.

Nunya Level 6 Aug 27, 2020
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You can't reason someone out of something that they weren't reasoned into.

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My commiserations....that must be a very difficult situation.

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..,.and what does she say when you tell her you won’t tolerate it? Sounds like the dictator just rode into town!

Well I don't know about the OP but if I were in a relationship with a homophobe I would not tolerate it either, I would be on my bike and leave the bigot, no matter what their reason.
Nothing dictatorial about being a good person.
There is no excuse today for irrational prejudice, if you do it, it is because you are an evil fuck by nature and you want to hate.

@LenHazell53 Sometimes ‘good’ is subjective. It depends upon its context and framing. Is utilitarianism ‘good’?

@Geoffrey51 I'm not a follower of Bentham, but I do gauge my personal morality upon intent to contribute to the general well being on both a social and personal level.
This is how I can differentiate between criminal activity and so called "sin" finding the former contextually reprehensible or excusable and the latter irrelevant other than when it is genuinely harmful.

@LenHazell53 My daughter came out bisexual shortly after her father left. She knew beforehand and struggled because she knew his beliefs on it. She was cutting herself...at 12. Since he's been gone (he's been teaching in South Korea the last two years) she has really bloomed. While i don't regret marrying him because i love our children amd glad they are here, I regret not having left sooner.

1

There are 2 realities that we deal with in our lives, the first reality is the outerworld, that we experience through our 5 senses and then there is the reality that we deal with from within ourselves. It is that inner reality that you have to reach, and that takes time and work and patience.

1

I don't believe in any type of god, or gods; however, I don't care what a person believes as long as they are basically grounded in reality. One can believe in a generic creator god and still accept science, for instance.

It isn't completely unreasonable to believe that some sort of god is, or might be, responsible for creating the universe. It is unreasonable to think magically about this god, or the universe; and to think one can know what such a being "wants." Even the idea that such a being would "want" anything is a bit bizarre to me...which is why a creator god makes no sense to me. Unless creation is just a by-product of what it is rather than a conscious choice.

It is also unreasonable to say that one knows what this god wants and then try to force their beliefs onto others through some sort of coercion (either familial or via the government).

I have family members, including children, whom I don't think I will ever persuade; they are of the conservative Evangelical variety of Christian 😟. My only hope is that they will at some point allow themselves to look outside of their religious box and fully explore the questions that I know they have.

1

We do not let people believevin gods. People are free to think and do what they please.

You either accept them, or you don't. No one needs your permission.

SCal Level 7 Aug 25, 2020

Are you saying people have the right to be homophobes if they excuse it with religious doctrine?

@LenHazell53

I believe in 8 billion governments practicing the non-aggression principle.

1

If I'm with anyone that feels they can tell me to "not say that" about anything it's over.
Even if I'm wrong for saying it.

If you are a bigot in any way you deserve to be shamed for that. If you are not, then this wouldn't happen to you anyways. So not applicable

1

In which case you may be a better practitioner of her religion than she is. I doubt her religion supports being unkind to anyone for any reason. “Judge not” etc.

skado Level 9 Aug 25, 2020
0

It is very difficult sometimes, having a spouse or significant other as a believer. Difficult to have discussion because they can become irate. Unfortunately I don't have any tips or tricks that can help.

0

Was your wife religious when you got married or did she get converted later?

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Believers do not think god can create someone who is gay. In fact, god did not create you because you had parents. Most of us did too, and that includes the gay person.

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Good on you for drawing the line and standing up for your own morals. I think it’s not the power of imagination that drives then, more like the power of fear.

Mvtt Level 7 Aug 25, 2020
0

You have to draw some lines to remain comfortable in your own skin! If she can refrain from judgemental and/or racist remarks, fine. Unfortunately, my experience is many are drawn to religion because it "frees" them to Be judgemental & racist. Good luck!

0

She would have to want to leave on her own.
She most likely knows that her beliefs are nonsense.

"The true-believer syndrome merits study by science. What is it that compels a person, past all reason, to believe the unbelievable. How can an otherwise sane individual become so enamored of a fantasy, an imposture, that even after it's exposed in the bright light of day he still clings to it - indeed, clings to it all the harder? No amount of logic can shatter a faith consciously based on a lie." - M. Lamar Keene

There could be any number of reasons why people believe in fantasies. Find out what she is afraid of, or what she may be afraid of losing, then you may find a clue to help her.

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Draw the line clearly.

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