Today’s Supreme Court Case Threatens to Turn Nonreligious Americans into Second-Class Citizens...
"Washington, D.C.—October 6, 2020—Today at 11 am ET, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear livestreamed oral arguments in Tanzin v. Tanvir, a case that has received scant media attention but could have far-reaching consequences for church/state separation, warns the civil rights organization American Atheists.
American Atheists is sounding the alarm that, with the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the Supreme Court in this case is more likely to grant religious people special privileges unavailable to nonreligious Americans—more specifically, allowing religious litigants to sue for monetary damages under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA).
“Justice Ginsburg was a strong believer in religious equality—the idea that Americans of all religions and no religion deserve equal treatment under the law,” said Geoffrey Blackwell, Litigation Counsel for American Atheists, who co-authored an amicus brief in the case earlier this year. “Giving religious believers privileged access to the courts would turn nonreligious Americans into second-class citizens. It’s unconstitutional, and Justice Ginsburg would have fought it tooth and nail.”
Tanzin v. Tanvir involves several Muslim men who were approached by FBI agents and asked to inform on their congregations. When the men refused to comply, they were put on the “No Fly” list without justification and suffered significant harm as a result.
“The FBI agents’ actions were egregious and unconscionable and they must be held accountable. However, giving religious Americans—and only religious Americans—a special pathway to sue the individual agents for monetary damages is the wrong way to do so,” said Blackwell. “The Court cannot correct one constitutional violation by creating another.”
“If the Supreme Court were to rule in the religious litigants’ favor, it would create the sort of double standard the First Amendment was intended to prevent: religious individuals would have greater opportunity to protect their rights in court than nonreligious individuals,” said Alison Gill, Vice President for Legal and Policy at American Atheists. “Tanzin v. Tanvir provides a perfect example. Ex-Muslims unjustly placed on the ‘No Fly’ list for refusing to act as informants would be prevented from suing for damages purely because they are nonreligious. And that disparity would extend to all nonreligious Americans.”
“The law must treat everyone equally, whether they are religious or not. The Supreme Court must come down on the side of equality, not on the side of increased religious favoritism,” said Nick Fish, president of American Atheists."
8
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6 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.LOL. They're not going to give Muslims such a victory. They might not even allow Muslims to remain in the nation if 45 wins.
rainmanjr
Level 8
Oct 7, 2020
0
This case does involve atleast one Muslim as I understand, but what does it open the nation up for irregardless of religion? I think the judgement needs to separate personal liability out. It needs to be handled under a separate ethics pathway. So I think that my opinion would differ slightly from that of AA. I will admit I haven't read all the details. It is an interesting topic though.
@Flowerwall My post (of a few minutes ago) might help clear that up. 45 might actually see himself as Joshua, God's agent following Moses, and the ultimate slayer of the dreaded Baal religion.
@rainmanjr I don't understand the reference. I haven't thought this through enough. I have wondered if maybe I DO agree with AA, but I'm not sure. I probably should not have commented it the first place, until I understood it more.
@Flowerwall If I'm right then a mere argument about the authority of religion is, imo, insufficient and probably doomed. Just as Thomas Paine did, with Age Of Reason, we must take the fight to Catholicism/Christianity using their own words to move them away from focus on God (but back to Jesus) as that is the closest bridge which still accomplishes a better society. Jesus was very much in line with Taoist teachings so I'd accept that bridge. We can work on full Atheism from there but one moves the ball incrementally on a gridiron. We are currently deep in enemy territory so I'd do what might work.
@Flowerwall I'm aware that Age Of Reason argued against Jesus, as well, but I don't propose going that far. Only that we use their own edifice as our best chance to score a TD.
@rainmanjr Not sure. Havent read it, not familiar. You are probably more informed here.
@rainmanjr I will say for the time I agree with AA. I mean agree in the legal sense of a counter position. That could very likely change. My personal opinion is not the same. This case is bothersome to me though. I don't understand how it even falls under any type of religious protection as it's not like practicing religion was ever hindered. It was ASKED, but never happened. I do understand the need for the FBI to not have this unchecked power with the No Fly list, but being able to sue for monetary damages, individual officers, it's just wrong.
Now when you do some further reading, the assumption is it's somehow an underhanded racist tactic that was being used on these men. That's what I read. However, in my mind, irregardless of religion, or race, if the FBI asks for assistance from a citizen or resident, I would imagine there would be a sense of duty to comply, a sense of national loyalty, or either a strong reason against. I understand it restricts personal freedom, but really the issue is a matter of flying, and not religious freedom. At no point was religious practice prevented. For instance having the ability to fly is a special right in and of itself. Looking at what our international travelers brought back home earlier this year and that the nation must now all pay the heavy cost for (the human cost and the economic impact is beyond belief!) I don't feel it is a right that comes without responsibilities. The individual's right to fly is much less important than the safety of the group, the nation. Good leaders, law enforcement understand that and work to make it happen. And I will reiterate unchecked power by fbi is not good with this list. There should be some stadardized review, uniform procedures, that warrants placement on the list. It should have oversight by an internal group. If the individual is a "hardworking, honest man" as described the one man was describef by FBI, he should not have to contend with this.
Just reading the short description of the case written here this case seems like a no brainer in that there is no case. They should NOT be able to sue. Otherwise religious belief could consistently be used as a guise for concealing illegal activites or plans with the constant right to sue, upon law enforcement questioning it, available. And that's not specific to anyone religion, of course. It's interesting that suspects would have not cooperated in the first place. Were the true practices of the associared sects ever fully revealed? At some point, our laws and legal precedents have to be constructed in such a way as to not allow our potential foes the means to destroy us through our own strong sense of fairness and liberty, to destroy us from within To not construct our laws in such a way is lack of forethought and prudence, and an insult to the human quest for liberty and justice everywhere.
Additionally, how has this case lingered in the justice system for so long? What motivates such sustained focus? How are legal expenses provided for? What is the financial cost to the American people to put such a focus on a very limited group of ppl, with very limited potential pool of effected citizens? Isn't this in effect a prime example of how the rich are able to game the system to their own ends? Has the SCOTUS made itself a useful tool for the dominant elites in this specific instance?
Upon further reading it appears that the essential question being answered in this case is "the Justice Department argued that damages against individual officers are not a form of “appropriate relief,” warning that even “the mere ‘specter of liability,’ might deter employees from carrying out their duties to the fullest extent.” So it definately needs to be heard and answered. I am surprised at how willing this nation is to bend over backwards to those who wish not to follow our laws. It gives a very strong arguement for our need to further pursue nationalist goals.
Flowerwall
Level 7
Oct 7, 2020
0
Well Well just more evidence that religion is dying. So whatever a bunch of whack jobs in black robes do, or rule on, is never going to change this. I live everyday with total satisfaction knowing this garbage is on its last legs.
CuddyCruiser
Level 8
Oct 7, 2020
5
Now the the wealthy and their corporations have hijacked and taken over the courts on the federal, state and local levels, the politicians, the overt use of militarized law enforcement into a private vicious army of mostly right wing militias members all by using religion and race as their cause so they could hustle these sheep into fodder to die for a cause that that will only use them to control those who do not agree or go alone with them!!!
This slow moving 60 year Coup d’Tat that they created to re-indenture us, re-enslave us, destroy our middle class, the unions, the school system, the environment, and our various cultures by using religious fundamentalism to conquer those who seek spirituality over their own reality!!!
Religion with it’s virus of evangelism Is the opiate of the masses so sure they are doing god(s) work not ever realizing they are just fodder for the wealthy and their corporations!!!
This overt religious tyranny must be stopped and Eradicate with full haste!!!
Time to end this re-enslavement is not on our side!!!
of-the-mountain
Level 9
Oct 6, 2020
4
Excellent description of the present. Well written. Can I borrow it?
It is not copyrighted!!!
I wrote this this morning, hence I consider it open source!!!
This essay is based upon observation, investigations, and research over the last sixty years of how our country and the planet is being forced into a massive Reset which will indenture and re-enslave us!!!
@of-the-mountain gosh, I truly hope you beat it.
Will you be able too!!!
@of-the-mountain luckily they haven’t started mobilising the internal military against us, in my Countries yet. Except in very few localised cases. When they do it sucks, yes, not always for the same reasons; but that’s life.
The Humanist society and other groups are doing some good work to further remove religion from politics, it seems Americans have woven it in and the fall out from not being religious is more serious.
The middle East starting to get involved in our politics does slightly worry me, I won’t lie, I am concerned about the erosion of women’s, GBLTQ and people with disabilities’ rights, amongst other things.
At this point and time we are entering a period to too similar to 1920s and 1930s Europe after WWI when the greedy took over the wealth from the monarchs, hence the. Bankers became the new masters and lords!!!
The wealthy and their corporations have now stolen and sucked almost all the wealth from us!
They now need fodder for their massive reset which will be like a apocalypse type zombie war, only we will be the zombie fodder to be exterminated along with the weak, the old, the disabled, and then everyone who does not fit into their clone enslavement!!!
Just realize that this not on our pay level and our need to know!!!
This whole Reset, Coronavirus pandemic is a great genocidal trick to weaken those people of color, the old, the disabled, and those they deem inferior.!!!
It is a great reset for the wealthy and their corporations over our demise as useful fodder!!!
@of-the-mountain mmm well we certainly see things differently. I see capitalism without ethics incorporated as the issue. People of all walks of life being able to, or having an interest in where their money is going- meaning who and what it is supporting.
The rich did decide to let us learn to read and write, and religion actually helped with that decision, but unless we use our ability to learn to stop supporting unethical companies and making ‘immoral’ investments, where we can, we are just as guilty as the ignorant wealthy who think that collecting money is what life is all about.
Some people are doing there best, whatever class they are, I’ve met wealthy people who are devoting their lives to saving animals and heard of secret millionaires’ clubs where they compare and discuss their philanthropic efforts. I’ve also met people who say they’re poorer and have to buy products that are harmful to animals/ people/ the environment as they can’t afford better choices, which is frustrating. But most of us are in the middle and can make educated choices that will support a better future, (including looking after our health).
@girlwithsmiles
Hitler had dogs, Mussolini had dogs, Stalin had dogs!!!
Just because you like and treat animals humanly does not automatically make you a good person or a bad person!!!
I have three feral cats that live with me, I also feed possums, raccoons, and now a baby skunk!!!
I spend more on food for these animals than I do for myself!!!
Just how many individuals actually own stocks, bonds, and derivatives out of the 7.89 billion who inhabit this planet!!!
It is astonishing that change is usually so slow as to not happen at all!!!
Philanthropy is a tax dodge of the wealthy in which they actually profit more from these NGOs, charities, public trusts, endowments, and nonprofits.
Follow the money, if you can, if at all, with all the monies hidden overseas, unless there is someone on the inside to release the facts, we might never know how the wealthy and their corporations hide $$$ trillions upon $$$ trillions Upon $$$ trillions hidden!!!
Even though animal use and experimental use is now outdated and unnecessary it is still promoted by our governments and the corporations who receive tax funded grants to harm and kill animals in the name of protecting humankind!!!
The moral and ethical abuse of animals can be altered when the wealthy, their corporations and our governments no longer profit from such cruelty to all animals!!!
Your direct connection to change is so limited, we are taught we have free will!!
@of-the-mountain I see you took one comment and ran with it, I too was talking about free will.
Free will is used to give us the impression we have free thoughts!!!
They are only free if they align with what the wealthy and their corporations deem worthy!!!
If you disagree you are on one of the many lists that makes you a target not now, but later when you are separated, censored, and banned from communication with others because of your thoughts of free will and deeds!!!
Free will is just that it only has value to the ones who think they have it, unfortunately it is kept as hanging fruit to entice you into believing it actually exists!!!
@of-the-mountain well I chose which companies and corporations I use and therefore have some say in my life. There are a large number of people that think like me, and thanks to some great people working to improve things things are slowly improving in small ways. I just hope that it snowballs.
Many people don’t make informed choices or consider their options, that is what scares me.
Ok!
This is the problem the wealthy and their corporations will not help you, even if you use their products!!!
These corporations and their wealthy owners have had over 250 years to change!
The only change has been one when they had to reset to continue to profit off our backs!!!
One out over a thousand corporations will actually do what is morally and ethical!!
The vast vast majority only care about profits, not the environment or that you and your families have any form of health care!!!
Sad but true, you are only responsible for you!!!
It should all scare you, since you can see and feel these insane methods around you at least you can hope to soften and comprehend how to protect yourself!!!
You are just one, you can see and protect yourself from what might happen because you are so aware!!!
@of-the-mountain I don’t feel that I’m only responsible for me, that would make me like a lot of the selfish people that seem hell bent on destroying our livable environment. I feel that as an aware adult I am responsible for all decisions I make and their knock on effects. The way I bank, invest my pension, buy products.
Most wealthy people and people in companies might only care about their profit margins, (and people with savings accounts and pensions), but there are fair trade companies and farmers going organic and free range that we can support. There are people making: electric cars; solar panels; and sustainable energy. Even people making reusable cups, swopping in cardboard packaging and other innovative ideas which can help people.
Sure I gave eco anxiety, and pauper anxiety, the demise of the National Health Service scares the hell out of me. I’ve not chosen a lucrative career, I care too much and am too idealistic I suppose: I realised that the world was overpopulated at about 14 years old, my brother has produced our family’s children. I’ve just never understood why most people’s lives seem to remain unexamined by themselves and so too are the impacts.
Sure I’m scared and have thought about emigrating to another Country with better laws, especially since the farce that was Brexit, but I moved here for family and that’s probably an anchor that will keep me here, in one way or another.
You have to do what is right for you, right or wrong!!!
There is no rule book of life!
You are born, you live, you die, Therese are the only things that are real rules!!!
Oh yes Taxes, not everyone is taxed or pays them!!!
Only you can make yourself happy!!!
I have lived and worked on three continents, I have learned we are always foreigners even in our own lands!!!
Running to another country is not always the answer!
The vast majority of the 7.85 billion individuals on this planet never venture more than 200 miles from where they were born!
You have to do what you are comfortable with, family is important and necessary, yet it can cause many steps of anxiety and fear, yet reward and make one happy!!!
Human nature is a sense of positivity and naturing, yet we are prone to hate, love, abuse, fondling, violence, and peace!!!
Greed and power over others has been the vain that corrupts the vast majority of us!!
Be happy, be understanding, be companionate, Be strong, be alive!
After all we are tested everyday we spend on this planet!
You have survived this long and far, the reality is you must be doing something right to still be alive!!!
It's almost go time.
Funny the people that want equality are the "bad" people according to this administration.
I doubt Conservatives want the fight they're about to start.
They'll lose, legally, morally, and they'll lose the public, permanently.
Willow_Wisp
Level 8
Oct 6, 2020
4
I hope you are right but that remains to be seen and the Thoecratic direction 'merca is going, I am not optimistic.
@rainmanjr I don’t ever expect to die, so when I do I’ll have a really surprised look on my face. Like a person with too much plastic surgery, which is expensive, so people will think I was rich.
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