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LINK I’m an atheist, but I can’t wait to get back to church

Yet another atheist sells out with a pro-religion article.

josh_karpf 7 Nov 28
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14 comments

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0

Well, they do sometimes have spaghetti dinners.

2

I love to hear the call to prayer, when I am staying in Islamic countries, especially the early morning call. But not remotely am I ever likely to convert.

1

I don't think that the article is really pro-religion, she no where says that she is giving up atheism. It is only really in praise of medieval architecture.

When one looks closely at HOW these examples of Medieval Architecture were built one sees, if one uses both open eyes and open mind that these edifices were built with the blood, sweat and tears of lowliest of serfs and peasants who were mostly coerced into labouring NOT for their own benefit by for the benefits of the Religion, the Church and its powerful Hierarchy under the entirely false premise of " God needs another house for his children to worship him in."
I look at those edifices and wonder, how many LIVES did they cost, How many families went hungry BECAUSE their fields and crops went unattended to, Did these poor serfs and peasants get exemptions from paying Tithes to the Church both during and after expending their energies to build these edifices, etc, etc,?
IF these religious Edifices had NOT been built and the labour, etc, was used to better the conditions under which the peoples were living at those times just how far advance would human kind have been by now?

@Triphid Yes that is very true, and generally I see them as monuments to exploitation. The church after all demanded a tithe, one tenth of everything from everyone, and of course it was as always the poorest who had the least opportunities to avoid paying. Then it accepted and demanded gifts on top of that, plus its own property and rents, and its own merchant activities. It was a huge drain on the resources of the time. Just imagine what could have been done with all that wealth, had it been spent on canals, roads, better housing for the poor, harbours, sewers, irrigation and dams, all of which were known and technically possible at the time. ( They did spend a little on hospitals. Putting on a show. ) The catholic church may be a charitable institution, when it has to be, or when it gains credit from doing so, but perhaps no institution has done more to create poverty in the first place.

Though I do not think, as I have been informed, that it is true that, poor peasants, were forced to actually work on building the cathedrals. Most of the work was done by skilled masons, and builders, who were actually part of the church establishment, and usually very highly paid, by the standards of the day. So much so, that membership of the trade guilds, was very carefully controlled and only members of the builders and masons guilds, which were themselves powerful and wealthy, could work on the sites. I have heard that, even unskilled labour on the cathedrals earned one shilling and six pence, increasing with their rank and skill level, which was an undreamed of wage then, a hundred times the earning of a peasant. Cathedral building was the 'oil boom', industry of the day. So much so that there was vast and aggressive competition for the church jobs, and in part it was no doubt the ambition of the powerful and influential masons, within the church establishment, which drove the church building programs.

Health and safety was however as you say quite unknown. And a lot of lives were lost during the building. Indeed it is not unknown for even master masons to die, in falls from, or the collapsing of scaffolding etc. But then no doubt, the church said that, if you died helping to build the church, then you gained a great blessing (sic).

@Fernapple Yes, the design work and dressing of stone etc, was done by Stone Masons and Builders BUT as is always the case, the hard slog and dangerous work was ALWAYS left to and done by the serfs and peasants whose lives were considered far less of a value btw.

1

Catholicism left me with enough post traumatic stress that I avoid such places and their music.

Btw, I see PTS not as a disorder but as analogous to the body’s immune response. The IR is the body protecting the body; PTS is the mind protecting the mind.

1

I have toured Notre Dame in Quebec, and the Palace of Gold in West Virginia with delight & awe.....lovely experiences with no religion involved on my side. Highly recommended, both places......

0

Hmmm, imo, sounds more like 'Fence-sitter' than an Atheist.

5

For those who didn't read the story. This isn't about her going back to Church services, but enjoying the Cathedral as a (secular) meeting place and as beautiful architecture.

Thank you. I'm already aware of that subject and don't understand their fascination. For the sake of architecture we'll overlook oppression and death? Hm. Those are some values the man on the cross might not agree with.

1

Oh well, I guess then I could say I am a heterosexual dude but I can't wait to be fucked by some other dude and then suck his dick until he cums in my mouth and then swallow it. That wouldn't make me gay, would it????

1

I'd like to ask her exactly how she defined herself as an atheist. These kinds of pseudo religionists in sheep clothing annoy me, though they don't usually refer to themselves as atheists. Atheist is a defiant term in our countries, and from my experience it's more usual for someone to call themselves agnostic but still religion leaning. So, I'm suspicious of her.

1

Go on, off you go.

3

A recent funeral was about as close to church as I ever wanna get again. One person there repeatedly telling the son that he would see his mother again. Oh, come on now. Stop making it all up.

4

To suggest that touching anything related to religion will give you cooties is every bit as superstitious as any religious belief. Frying pan, meet fire.

skado Level 9 Nov 28, 2020
2

A person gotta do, what a person gotta do.

4

That article isn't pro-religion. It's pro-architecture, maybe.

I love church’s / places of worship, some beautiful buildings. I enjoy visiting them and even watching some of the proceedings ( from an anthropology perspective). There is a Buddhist temple in Singapore that is interesting with a complete gold room.

@Canndue I have a complicated relationship with such places. I find them both comfortingly familiar and suffocating. I celebrate human endeavor while simultaneously mourning the needless cost. I leave full of mixed emotions.

@AmyTheBruce interesting. Sounds like your still struggling with doubts. I can honestly say I feel something visiting museums, seeing works of art, but nothing in churches or temples.

@Canndue LOL! No, I am not struggling with any doubts beyond the very reasonable position that if any REAL evidence was shown, I'd take a look.

These are not doubts, but memories and knowledge that FEELS like memory, if you know what I mean. It's like I can feel the weight of history in there (even in newer buildings, because they carry the weight of the traditions that inspired them).

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