if you wish to be wrapped up in this event going on around us then more power to you. I prefer to focus on the permanent.

@JeffMesser what is permanent?

@waitingforgodo awareness

@JeffMesser wouldn't awareness be a pattern over time that has a beginning and an end?

@waitingforgodo awareness is constant. memories are not. we are aware in all levels of consciousness.

@JeffMesser if there are different levels of consciousness then wouldn't awareness vary?

@waitingforgodo nope. take away ego and it's just like "the watcher". remember, we make our entire reality inside our head. think about it - your dreams are just as real to your mind as awake. and in deep sleep you simply have no activity to be aware of. we call it "turiya" which literally means "4th". when you have periods of stillness in between thoughts aren't you still aware?

time is most certainly an illusion as it is relative to the size and natural laws of the reality in which it is being measured. the event and its' potential have already happened. it's like when you watch an explosion on a distant island and you must wait for the sound to reach you - the event is over and done. you're just observing a resultant cause and effect. time is NOT real. it adds nothing.

@JeffMesser you say, "...must wait for the sound to reach you - the event is over and done. you're just observing a resultant cause and effect. "

again, time is a measurement. An inch is a measurement. It's like you are saying distance is not real. The measurement of time and the measurements of distance has an intrinsic correlation.

When observing something that is at such a distance that you see light long before sound is heard is a very solid way to understand the fact of time. Something occurred this time, then something occurred that time. There is a measurement of time between the light seen and the sound heard. And obviously, these observations reach you after the fact of the causation occurence.

you're missing the point entirely. these aren't objects or materials. they are events.

I know this how because of what is constant and what changes. our perceived reality is a learned construct and differs from person to person. what doesn't change is the changes encountered by 2 observers even if their perceived reality was different.

@JeffMesser Events? Whatever it is I can agree with your "constants and what changes" totally because it says what I was trying to say.

This man is correct.

your conception of "proof" is limited and stymies your ability to conceive ideas beyond your limited perceptions. I'd suggest studying epistemology.

I believe in the god of Spinoza and Einstein. The god that is the result of billions of years of cause and effect and evolution of this event we're riding. Personifying or anthropomorphizing a deity is silly.

@JeffMesser Just nonsense.

@nogod4me what nonsense? that the universe and reality are determined by rules? if you think that is nonsense then you're just a fool.

@JeffMesser So then tell us silly fool, in detail, what is the purpose in believing silly, foolish, nonsense. Is it in order to try and justify believing silly, foolish, nonsense without evidence? We already know that silly, foolish, believers do that, that is what believers do.

@nogod4me believing that "2+2=4" across existence is no more "silly" or "foolish" than the moronic post you made above. you just go ahead and take that anger to your death. you'll be back.

@JeffMesser Spoken like a believer.

@nogod4me I am a believer and I said it many times. I believe in Spinoza's god. you can attempt to use that as slander all you want - but you're just coming off sounding like a paranoid idiot.

@JeffMesser I don't have to "believe" that 2+2=4, I know that 2+2=4 because we have knowledge from evidence that 2+2=4. If you have to "believe" 2+2=4, then you must be the idiot.

@nogod4me your mind has been conditioned or taught to see that. you could be taught to see 6 or 5 instead. I think you're in way over your head in this conversation. read more.

@JeffMesser Only as long as the numbers 5 or 6 meant 4, as in our reality. The believer has the conditioned mind, if you believe 2+2=5 or 6, you are not accepting facts or evidence of our world, you are believing nonsense.

@nogod4me you have absolutely no clue what I am talking about. really dude, go read a book. I'd suggest something on mental elasticity because you've got a serious blind spot in your knowledge level.

@JeffMesser You have no idea what you are talking about.

@nogod4me you should just wear a shirt or a sign that says "Dunning-Kruger".

@JeffMesser And you should wear a shirt or sign that says: "I can't understand you, I have my head up my own ass."

I have to agree. My father used to say something like, whether you believe in it or not the brick that smashes into your head kills you regardless.

@RussRAB if you believe this body defines you then so be it.

@JeffMesser “Who could ask for anything more?” as one commercial jingle goes.

@The-Krzyz your awareness is present no matter what the state of your body and is constant. it's also never been born and never dies. so why would you limit your definition of yourself to this body?

@JeffMesser Well: Because it has been, and is, enough. More than enough; because I have seen no evidence to the contrary, other than some people’s desire for it to be so; and, finally, because it is mortal.

@The-Krzyz well just because you don't leave your house doesnt mean the rest of the world doesnt exist. you don't get to stick your head in the sand and claim it's everyone else who is daft.