For former believers, what started the train of doubt that led you to be atheist or agnostic? Was it a moment or a build up of events?
As science progressed, humans found explanations for what they did not know before. For example, in ancient times, humans believed in many gods that controlled things such as thunderstorms or vegetation to name a few. Then, as our understanding of the natural world grew, they threw away their gods and then slapped the god label on the next mystery for them. Based on this, I define God as an ever receding pocket of human knowledge and is therefore impossible to disprove but also holds no evidence aside from the fact science can not yet explain what they claim god to have done.
Agreed. Sounds like something Neil Degrasse Tyson would say or has even said (particularly about the ever receding pocket of knowledge -- but it's okay, I've cited for you?). But it would have been interesting to hear your experience in understanding the notion of god/gods rather than that of human development. ?
@CedrickMoore I would’ve went into my personal experience if that was the question...but the question was when and how doubt was brought about in regards to God.
Interesting. I wonder what was meant when the OP asked "for former believers, what started the train of doubt that led you [humanity?] to be atheist or agnostic?" I surmise that the doubt it was talking about was not humanity, but your own. Nevertheless, whatever floats your boat, floats it.
After Trump got elected. You think I am kidding. No, his evangelical followers have shown me that they will support Trump even when he is doing things that go against their teachings. Please don't ask me to list what those are. Just my opinion. And do not get me started about folks who blow others up in "God's name".
@VampFatale Trump is a modern religious cult for those who have no religion. If you corner them on beliefs they will invoke the names of Hillary and Obama.
I started to wonder if life was preordained or free will. If God knows everything before it happens then it is preordained. If he doesn’t know then it is free will and he isn’t all knowing. If it is preordained then all people in hell he knew would end up there and made them just to punish them for what he did. That didn’t make any sense so I started questioning everything in my belief system. I am now completely atheist.
It was a build up of different things. There's a lot of parts in the bible that were hard for me take. I realized that I was rationalizing a lot of it. So I lost my faith in stages. First I rationalized that people had just screwed up the message. Then I rationalized that the new testament was God clarifying things that people screwed up. But there are some things in the new testament that are as bad as the old testament. So then I quit going to church and just had my own ideas about who and what god was. I realized there was no basis for these ideas so I became agnostic. Finally a co-worker took me that I was an atheist that just couldn't admit it to myself. She was right.
I think I was about 7, went to a Catholic church with the semi-religious parents and was exposed to its teachings which included their utter hate for Eve and her evil of eating the apple. That plus the persecution of women since and I concluded then that it was all bullshit, how could something that's supposed to tach people to be good and pure condem 50% of its members (at least)?!? Nope, I wasn't buying it!
Oh, and BTW, a really bone chilling yet so accurate quote from the movie "Dangerous Beauty" (based on a true story), ...talking about the prospects women had in the 1500's... "she'll grow up like her mother, she'll marry bear children and honor her family, spend her youth in needlepoint and rue the day she was born a girl. When she dies she'll wonder why she obeyed all the rules of god and country because no biblical hell could ever be worse than a state of perpetual inconsequence!" This put in words that which I remember thinking similarly myself when I was young and made me the 100% sure atheist I am today.
What "started" it all for me, happened very early on. I was taught that God is all powerful and everywhere. God loves us all equally.
HOWEVER, to ask god for forgiveness, you MUST talk to the Priest! And if you REALLY want God to hear you, you should have the Priest talk to him for you!
Wait! Whaaaat?!?!
Though raised Catholic, I don't ever remember believing it. I initially refused to be confirmed. My dad told me he didn't really care, except that I wouldn't be able to have a church wedding. He bribed my by offering his signet ring if I chose a name that would give me the same initials. I went for it. It wasn't until I was in my forties that I learned all three of my sisters were also life-long atheists. Why didn't we ever talk about it?
Its funny,religion and politics have a huge effect on all peoples lives but we are told never to talk about them,because we might upset people.Avoidance of these topics is what cause the problems we live with.
My parents never pushed religion on me, so I was always questioning it even from a very young age. I was raised Jewish, but it was always emphasized that we were Jewish "culturally" and not religiously, so I always accepted traditions from a cultural standpoint; to me, getting together for holidays was always about the food, anyway - there's a running joke about Jews: "We were persecuted, we survived, let's eat."
this was the same way i came up, being Jewish but not really anything, although my mother suddenly thought that when i was 12 i ought to have a bar mitzvah, so i did a crash course at 12 and was bar mitvahed, but i never felt comfortable with any of it, though i did give an effort to study and understand. i even eventually married a orthodox jewish girl, and that REALLY showed me the phony nature of religion and all attached. I have been a non believer since the early 1970s, and been very happy and content about it. a BIG help for me was spending time listening to and reading Alan Watts.
I kind of disbelieved so young I don't remember. It was when I read negative writings that I began to take disbelief seriously. The Methodists used "Jesus Christ is King" for a theme for a conference and I realized I didn't believe Christ as devine. I thought the church should change to make Jesus a less definitive diety. Then it occured to me, "don't change the church, change you". Coming to the realization that there is no god took a lot longer. I struggled with thoughts that there had to be something after death. Finally I realized there doesn't have anything after life except decay and without body there is no brain function. Perhaps that is discourageing, but so be it. Taday I think of death as taking a wonderful nap. The concept of eternal life looses its glamor when you think the first 50,000 years might be ok, but than it might get boring. I don't think I've given you much comfort, but sincerely hope you find it in your spiritual travels.
I was a Sophomore in college and taking Anthropology 101. Early in the semester we had already learned about many different cultures/tribes, along with their particular religious beliefs. I kept thinking how silly their beliefs were. Then one day, I had a bit of an epiphany and just decided that Christianity was equally as silly and made up as all the rest of them.
As a child when I learned about Adam and Eve I found it strangly morbid how any divine entity would perform such a cruel test on such innocent creatures that he created. To me, it was the same as putting a cookie out for one of my sons, telling them YOU BETTER NOT TOUCH THIS, then, when they do what comes natural to them (eating the cookie), killing them and their decendents, forever. It just made no sense to me. "Free will" is bullshit to me. If god intended to have a perfect world, he COULD HAVE made one if he's the omnipotent and omniscient being that he's proclaimed to be. He didn't have to keep Satan or any of the angels around for that matter if they needed to be taught a lesson in obedience. Just get rid of them and go back to the drawing board. As a Software Engineer, when a piece of software fails due to my faulty coding, I don't blame the end users or anyone else. I blame myself and I fix my code. He chose to create "faulty code" then doomed them (and all other living beings) forever because of something he chose to make faulty in the first place. If you wanted us perfect, you should have MADE us perfect; otherwise, let us eat the fucking apple if we want it WITHOUT REPERCUSSIONS. Of course, he had to prove he was this almighty fucking being and we should bow down to him, never question him and be the subservient slaves that we should be...and if we don't, we're somehow wrong. So yeah, when I was a kid.
I always had doubts. I figured these doubts would eventually disappear as I got older, because church was generally filled with old people, so they must have come to terms with their doubts, right? I even WANTED to get rid of my doubts, because I felt sorta guilty for having them. But these doubts only grew, and here I am.
I’m not sure I ever believed. We were forced to an evangelical Baptist Church multiple times weekly by my parents, til at age 15 they could no longer force me to go. I’m the only atheist/agnostic in my entire family, and I recall many occasions of trying to present science/physics/facts to them...to no avail, so I quickly stopped!
The earliest memory of a ‘WTF’ moment: around age six, during a sermon on Noah’s Ark. I was INCREDULOUS at the outright fiction I was hearing. I looked around at all these gullible crazy people, and felt a little lost: THESE were the grown-ups?!
I went to Bible college and in my New Testament class we were going over a passage in Timothy about how men and women should behave. The first half of the verse was about how women should be silent and submissive. The class agreed that women should do this. The second half of the verse was about how men should raise their hands while they pray and the class agreed that was a cultural thing and men didn't have to do that now. There were no reasons given; no explination as to how to decide between what we should follow and what is "cultual". This lead me to belive it was all BS.
Was raised Catholic and taught that “Faith” is the answer to anything. Doesn’t make sense? Have Faith.
I read the Old Testament in middle school as a novel and it was very clear that God was similar to Zeus. He’s portrayed as a cruel asshole. Obviously invented by man to be used to control the uneducated.
At a very young age I would question everything ever told to me by my religious teachers. Most where volunteers or lower church officials just teaching 1st graders when I'd ask them to explain to me how god can know when I'll die and give me free will. Oh and if foriegn non believing children all go to hell. As you can imagine I got different answers everytime. I guess I've always doubted but didn't leave until I was 18 because I didn't want to be punished by my parents.
When I was a child, my Grandparents dragged my to church every Sunday. Catholic. I sat and listened, did the Sunday school thing. It never made sense to me. I was punished by giant penguins more than once for not being able to understand how Santa Clause, (whom I had never seen in my house) wasn't real, but God (whom I never saw anywhere) was. I never believed and I stopped going to church when I was around 6-7
For me I was never really a huge believer, when I was little I thought every one was a catholic and that church was just something we did. I didn’t really think about my first few years on this planet. Whenever I kneeled in the pews and we had to pray I always felt silly: I wasn’t one of those kids who had imaginary friends either.
It wasn’t until I went to go live with my aunt who were some denomination of Protestant that I started seeing the whole religion thing as something odd. I had to go to chapel on Wednesdays and whenever I would ask questions about why they were doing and saying somewhat different things from the Catholics, they basically just said that they were right and the Catholics were wrong.
This was the point when I started to think well how do I tell who is right? Then the snowball started rolling and bam before you knew it, I was an edgy teen atheist: listening to black metal and everything.
I held a lot of hatred toward the religious for a long time, but now in my 20s I’ve let that go and now I can have conservations about religion without things getting heated ( or at least without me being the aggressive party)
I do not conclude there is no God(s) just that religion is not truth. In my opinion there could be a creator from another galaxy that abandoned us. WIth all we know about altering DNA we could easily create another species in petri dishes and send them to Mars. We would then be their creators (Gods) but that sure does not mean we care about them or have any control over how they function. My doubts are in the image of God we have been handed not in the possibility of a creator with the technology to make humans as we are. The problem is that too many people think "intelligent" design means wisdom and concern but Hitler was intelligent and I could seriously see him creating another species to try and control,
I am seeing a lot of reasons for concluding that religion is wrong but not a whole lot about the possibility f a creator. Religion really should not be the sole reason we conclude there is no creator only that religion is not designed by one.