Current media illustrations of today's dating scene probably don't help.

@Lorajay It has always been that way, at least in my lifetime of being single of and on since the 70s. The internet just lets people do this without being face to face for sure.

@StarvingArtist well perhaps it is being helpful at least to the females because it made us more aware of what was really going on.

I'm a generation older than you and most of my life much more naive than most. My daddy was a bootlegger and ran night clubs and bars and in his effort to teach me about sexuality he taught me how to handle the boys but not to understand what was really going on. His reputation as a strong man also discouraged many from even thinking about approaching me.

My point exactly. There's so much more to a relationship than sex. Of course on the other hand, bad sex can totally ruin one.

@TheoryNumber3 bad sex is largely a lack of education.

@FrayedBear Or experience

@TheoryNumber3 when two ill educated people have sex yes there is a lack of intelligence & probably ability/desire to explore & communicate preferences to each other. If one party is more experienced than the other isn't it beholden on them for their own & partner's sake to teach them by sharing their knowledge?

@FrayedBear That's a "touchy" subject (pun intended). We're not changing a tire here You can show someone how to love you in a way that can be physically satisfying, but if the chemistry isn't right between two people, the sex is not going to be emotionally fulfilling. Agree or disagree?

@TheoryNumber3 lol. I call it masturbation & have never experienced, other than from novelty excitement, much pleasure from first time sex. I guess that makes me a lover not a fucker?

@FrayedBear I guess you're the best judge of that

@TheoryNumber3 As you'll never find out first hand it's all academic isnt it?

@FrayedBear I'll just have to live with my fantasies

@TheoryNumber3 What fantasies please do share.

@TheoryNumber3 I hope that you do not project your fantasies onto others when they aren't fulfilling them.
Isn't that the road to psychosis?

@FrayedBear That was sarcasm, not wishful thinking on my part.

@TheoryNumber3 Are you trying to tell me that you are lying again & that you do not fantasise?

@FrayedBear I'd prefer this silly conversation NOT go on indefinitely. You twist everything I say. I'm going to cut off comments on this post if you continue to send inflammatory responses.

@TheoryNumber3 Sarcasm is a form of lying. Ommission is a form of lying. Avoidance is a form of lying.
The judge asked Rastus "Did you hit William in defense?"
Rastus "No sah, I hit him in deface!"

@FrayedBear OK that's funny!!

Deb, I think it's worse than that. I think if you object they think it's because you're frigid.

I get a lot of men asking me if I still like sex, because of my age.

My response: "Yes I do. Can you still get it up?"

@TheoryNumber3 why do you both fail to understand that it is someone else's opinion not yours that is being expressed. Who said that you have the right of censorship?

@FrayedBear So I can tell a guy "You're ugly"... and he shouldn't be offended if that's my opinion?

I have a lot of opinions that I do not express because they might be offensive to others. As adults I think we can censor some of our unwelcome ones.

@TheoryNumber3 Ugly - depends on the others ego & reality.
Here in Australia the term cunt & bastard are frequently used. Offense is taken by some, others none.
I'm told that sensitive Americans have problems with both words.
I find it offensive that people cannot express their opinion. Why have language if you cannot use it?

@TheoryNumber3 Have you heard of "lying by ommission"?
[psychopathsinlife.com]

[human-stupidity.com]

@FrayedBear a person is free to say any damn thing he wants, as am I. If he says something insensitive or insulting to me, he better be braced for a tidal wave of backlash. If he doesn't have the cojones to receive it, perhaps he should think twice about what he dishes out.

@FrayedBear I have a degree in psychology and that is completely irrelevant. I'm tired of splitting hairs. Have a nice day or whatever expletive they use in Australia.

@Deb57, @TheoryNumber3: "person is free to say any damn thing he wants, as am I" - exactly.

"If he says something insensitive" - identifying your failure to explain your insensitivity or failure to identify the other's insensitivity or autism? "or insulting" - your ego not the accused insulter's opinion?

@TheoryNumber3: So using your degree in psychology perhaps you will explain why you choose not to answer the questions that I pose - neither are insensitive nor insulting - "Why have language if you cannot use it?" & "Have you heard of "lying by ommission"?" Incidentally on the first I don't think that "Have a nice day" is an expletive or original to Australia - more of an insincerity but perhaps that is what you believe life should be about - people exchanging insincerities?

Rather than ". . .day" may I suggest the obscurity, used in the sense of "the state of being indistinct or indefinite for lack of adequate illumination", Australian colloquialism of "'avagudun" but perhaps that is a step too far for your sensitivity & narcissistic ego?

@FrayedBear My position on this is very simple. I do not believe I have a right to expect protection from being offended. I do have the right to take offense, and to respond in kind if someone offends me, whether or not it was their intention to offend me. A disability or difference in point of view is not an excuse for saying things that offend without repercussion. I do not owe respect to anyone whose remarks are intentionally, or unintentionally, tactless or unkind.

@FrayedBear Perhaps it might be a good idea not to EXpress it to people you're trying to IMpress

@Deb57 "I do not owe respect" - is that projection?

@TheoryNumber3 without fear or favour - a cat may look at a king & tell him that he is stark bollock naked if he is.. If s/he then dies on her/his knees being beheaded s/he died true to themself well rid of the world they live in.

@FrayedBear how do you get "projection" out of that statement? Respect is earned.

@Deb57 "Respect is earned" - a statement that I agree with absolutely.

@Deb57 Sadly at present in Australia we have many who think that it doesn't have to be. To the extent that the Australian governments have spent millions advertising that it should be the case. IMO they misuse the expression lack of respect when they should be using words like bullying, elder/child/spousal abuse, wage inequality should be wage theft, medical inequality should be medical discrimination etc.

Doesn't the same apply that "all benefit" when men, gays, lesbians, bi's & transexuals are respected. The above advert disrespects them.

@TheoryNumber3 Don't forget to add the caveat; without medical help.

@FrayedBear why offend anyone?

@Lorajay Offense is not necessarily given but many take it because of the conditioning to live in a world of untruths.
I was not long ago seriously offended because hundreds of thousands of people were murdered because of the American propogated lie of "weapons of mass destruction".

@hankster OK.. You're doable

& what if "do-able" means suitable for sacrifice in a satanic ritual?
Methinks that you are putting the assbeforeu&me.

There are lots of reason guys (and gals) are single beside stupid ideology. If one is looking for a quality, drama-free relationship the choices get even slimmer.

@JackPedigo Yep, all I'm saying is guys who go around "rating" women on their outward appearance without getting to know them are not good relationship material, for me anyway.

I let the 2 major men in my life go in part because they never really saw beyond the surface and I guess I'd like to be known more in depth and valued even after youthful looks fade. They are still single and perhaps their shallowness is part of the reason why. They don't really want to get to know a woman. After many years together, I asked each of them to name 3 things they like about me - both named only the outward appearance of my body parts. Wrong answers for me. They knew what I was going for, but simply couldn't muster up a compliment or observation that wasn't superficial. Neither showed a sense of loyalty or honor, so the shabby quality and ensuing drama weren't worth it.

I have a mirror if I want to check my outward appearance. I'd like to have some thoughts reflected back to me in conversation - neither of the men in my life were capable of that. Someone else could have them - but they haven't gotten any takers yet.

@Julie808 What people fail to understand (or simply don't want to) is that looks are fleeting and will often fail. Also, appearance only tells a small part of the story. My first wife was gorgeous. She also was/is bi-polar (one could say (not) she was exciting too). True, physicality may be an indicator of health but the deeper personality is the one you have to live with and, if one is lucky and plays their cards right, relish . I learned that in spades from my last, late partner.

Due to stress during this last winter I have started seeing a therapist. We mostly talk about generalities but she is helping me improve my listening and conversing skills. She gave me a homework assignment to find and talk to 4 single women and practice my listening. One woman was a former social worker and actually gave me some critique. I told her I really appreciated that as this is what one needs when trying to learn. She was actually surprised as many men get defensive when a woman gives them advice - stupid. Friends have told me it seems to be working.

Why assume that you understand their meaning?

I think lust is more of a physical response,. But deep emotions can certainly lead to that.

@hankster All excellent choices.

I just sent one guy packing because he wouldn't stop making sexual innuendos. I told him if he's looking for a hookup he should try Tinder

@TheoryNumber3 Good answer. How frustrating for you!

The only problem with that is that people generally don't reply to people with no picture. I tend to assume they're hiding cause they're in another relationship they're butt ugly.

Oh and I wasn't trying to eliminate any group. I just really wanted the ladies' opinion on whether or not they're insulted or offended when this happens to them.

@TheoryNumber3 Once you turn a compliment into an insult, pretty much hard to win the game

@lerlo Why don't they "get" that? Why do they think it's a compliment to tell a woman she's fuckable? Are we supposed to be so grateful that we start ripping off our clothes and yelling "Do me now"?

@TheoryNumber3 Sorry, but I took your translation of being "hot" to be fuckable. Not even close. It IS a compliment to tell a woman she is hot--that's what she wants to hear--that she's attractive. It means nothing more than that. if you mean some guy came out and said you were fuckable--that's a different story. If you interpret hot to mean fuckable then I'm guessing if you thought the guy that said it was hot you wouldnt have posted at all

@lerlo You're telling ME what a woman wants to hear? That's exactly the problem. Men think they know what a woman wants to hear. Telling a woman she's attractive is a compliment. Telling her she's hot (which to us means fuckable) is NOT a compliment. And it is not what we want to hear from some guy on a dating site in an email. It's presumptuous and offensive. The women who responded here are all in agreement on that. Maybe you should read some of their responses

And if I thought the guy was hot, I wouldn't think so after he said that to me. It's just rude.

@TheoryNumber3 So does "cute" mean fuckable? Does "attractive" mean fuckable? Does "pretty" mean fuckable? How about "gorgeous?" Does that mean fuckable? Basically you and your friends came up with an alternate definition for the word "hot" (which cannot be found in any dictionary anywhere), decided that all guys mean fuckable when they use it, and blame guys for not understanding your made up definition. And WE are the problem

@lerlo From the urban dictionary:
II. One who you would:

a. lick
b. suck
c. nibble
d. flirt with
e. have sexual relations with

@TheoryNumber3 or there's this:
[everydayknow.com]
As I said previously, that you took the wrong way, if you turn every compliment into an insult you're fucked and not in the way you think. I can't tell you what a woman wants to hear but you can tell me what I mean when I say something

@lerlo let me see if I have this right... you're suggesting that if a woman does not wish to be treated like a piece of meat, she should remove her image from the internet? Become invisible? Otherwise, she somehow deserves to endure being devalued and objectified if she has the audacity to want to be seen?

@lerlo That article you sent me was an op ed, and one person's opinion... NOT a definition. You have already decided that you know exactly what women want, so I won't argue with you any longer. Carry on and continue instructing women on how they should and should not feel. It's a mission.

@lerlo Damn! you're just bound and determined to be right. I don't give two shits what he intends to convey. We are talking about how that expression makes a woman FEEL.

@Deb57 Well Deb, if you're going to interpret a compliment about your appearance as an insult, the way to avoid compliments about your appearance-or ANY comment about your appearance is to have no pictures up. Why would you have a picture up and risk some poor guy who has no idea that you're going to misinterpret his compliment giving you a compliment? You only want him to value what's inside you. So why on earth would you leave yourself open to any such comment? Post an x-ray. The risk of someone finding you attractive is wayyyy too great to post a picture. Or I guess you can say directly in your profile, "NO COMMENTS ABOUT MY APPEARANCE, " or "DO NOT DARE CALL ME HOT." That should solve all problems. Tell me why you would post a picture otherwise.

@Deb57, @TheoryNumber3 Exactly Theory, you don't give a shit whether they guy was just being nice or really wants to fuck you. So as I suggested to Deb, just post in your profile if you INSIST on posting pictures, "DO NOT COMMENT ON MY PICTURES AND IF YOU SAY I'M HOT I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AND HAVE YOU KILLED." That should get you responses from only gentlemen.
For your next post, to validate this one, you should ask "how many women want to be told that they are attractive on a dating site?" Don't forget to tip them off to the answer you want and I'm sure you're right that 90% have no desire to be told that they are attractive. Total objectification!

@lerlo Did I EVER say I didn't want to be told I'm attractive? I said I didn't want to be called "HOT" but you refuse to understand that there is a difference in perception between those two words, so any further posts by you will be ignored. You'll just continue telling us how we're supposed to feel. Apparently your skull is impenetrable to any opinion other than your own.

@lerlo, if someone messages me on this site to tell me nothing other than I look do-able or am attractive, they can save themselves the bother. I have mirrors. I get offers of sex without strings. Not interested. I can scratch my own itches, thanks anyway. If someone wants a response or interaction, "Your comments interest me," "I agreed with your remark," or "I respectfully disagree, and here's why..." will be more likely to get a positive response from me. Anybody simply looking for an orifice can look elsewhere.

@lerlo are you really that thick-sculled that you cannot see the point here? Please don't respond. I already know the answer.

I don't doubt that happens

But you've also reiterated the point I made earlier. While that may work on some women, we are not exactly the same, as most men think. What one woman likes is not what ALL women like. That's why I was asking the opinion of other women here. And they seem to agree with me that it's offensive. Men need to stop treating us like we are all carbon copies in terms of our preferences and how we respond to things.

Exactly!