"Atheism is a claim that there is no God."

Well - NO.

An Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a God (for any reason). They don't have to specifically attempt to prove that there is no God.

BUT

Many Atheists DO actively seek to counter Theist claims. They are then acting as Antitheists. Those people will use provable facts to discredit Theists, and so far as I can tell, they are doing fine.

BUT

"They have no proof that there is no kind of god"

That is TRUE.

Consider "Any sufficiently advanced form of civilization is indistinguishable from magic"

It would be a brave scientist or Antitheist, who knowing the extent of the observable Universe, could conclusively say that there aren't the equivalent of gods out there somewhere. So, any Antitheist who states categorically that "there can never be any form of God" IS indeed speaking from a sort of Faith.

Maybe the word Faith here is not totally adequate. What would be a good word for "a personal estimate of a situation based on past experience" ? Instinct, Gut feeling, Estimate, Educated Opinion ? I'll use "apesbope" for the sake of argument as I can't find a suitable synonym ? In many ways it is similar to Faith, but it has a lot more rigour to it because it is founded on experience and observation even though it may not be totally provable by mathematical or scientific experiment.

The value of someones apesbope would depend a lot on their personal learning, experience and mental acuity.

For example, I would have a lot of apesbope in the apesbope of well regarded scientists, although I have NO ability to judge their professional work. I would have a low amount of apesbope in regard to the teachings of fundamentalist christians.

If Stephen Hawking said "I think that Black holes eventually dissipate", my apesbate of HIS apesbope would be huge.

If a minister of religion said "the earth is only 7000 years old", my apesbope of his apesbope would be very low, NOT because I could PROVE his error first hand, but because so many accredited scientists have agreed after extensive study of geology and fossils.

Do you get the feeling I am putting off doing something important by rambling on for pages ? Should I even press SAVE ? Do I want to waste ten minutes of other peoples time ? Apesbope - lutely. !

Yes, yes- so direct to the point, BUT a person doesn't have to be too smart to figure out all man-made gods are an unfunny absurdity. As far as figuring out the origins of the universe, we do not know 'why' or 'how'. We do not know if there is a cognitive presence behind the big 'bangs'. One can only say, "I don't know", and be an agnostic.

And I find that militant atheists, and their counter group, the believers, to be just about on the same plain.

If, you would like i could clarify...we have the gnostic atheist or the agnostic atheist(like myself) we also have the gnostic theist or the agnostic theist....gnostic meaning to know like you know 100% there is or is not a god(s)....neither of which can really be proven. what we have left is agnostic atheists/theists. Meaning no one can be 100% sure or at least with out any credible evidence. However there are a few gods we can eliminate( for the most part the Greek/Roman mythologies, things lat that, unless you want to argue that they where aliens from advanced civilization then just up and left, but that's neither here nor there, the point is the belief that someone was literally throwing thunderbolts when we now know how it happens is pretty absurd.)

Kreig - Well, this is a discussion forum, after all. I'm just trying to nail down the atheist "position" exactly. I think we should all be able to argue our respective points without the discussion becoming contentious. At least, I hope so! I've been bragging on this site as being much better than Facebook, because people seem to be civil here, more than I've seen on Facebook.

Okay, so I gather from the comments that some people here feel that a philosophical position does not equal a belief system.

And that "...nobody has demonstrated the existence of any god in the last 5,000 years.." -- okay, I will buy, for now, the notion that the observable Universe and its origins does not prove the existence of a Creator. That sounds like a pretty solid position - it sounds like you have "knowledge" of the fact that nobody has demonstrated the existence of any god. Of course, the creationists will disagree with you.

As an agnostic, I simply say "I don't know." There may be a god or gods, but I haven't seen convincing evidence yay or nay for the existence of one or more "gods."

A "lack of belief" in something sounds like you're pretty sure of your position (you've decided to not have a belief), or that you really haven't given it much thought, or that the sheer volume of the evidence that you'd have to look through to conclusively prove that there is or isn't a God is not worth the effort. Okay.

As an agnostic, I rely on empirical data and critical thinking also. So agnosticism and atheism appear to be very similar. if "agnostic" means "without knowledge", then atheism probably means "without belief," right?

"Absence of evidence IS evidence of absence!" -- How thoroughly have you searched for evidence? If you've exhausted all possibilities, then this statement can be true. But how many of you, honestly, have searched the entire Universe for the evidence? Obviously, none of us have, stuck as we are to this planet in a nondescript solar system on the edge of one of the outer spiral arms of a garden-variety spiral galaxy in a corner of the local cluster of galaxies. So we can safely conclude that no human on planet Earth has, nor can they, determine that all evidence for the existence of a god or gods has been gathered. In fact, on planet Earth, we have only looked at a tiny fraction of all the possible evidence out there. So we're back to my premise - "I don't know."

Atheism is an "NON" belief and NOTHING else...

A belief is a "generalization" about something (including God). It's like an app on a computer. Beliefs are created in the absence of evidence. I don't believe that the earth is round. I don't have to. It just is. I don't believe that the sun is at the center of our universe. I don't have to. It just is. I don't believe that water boils at 212 degrees F (give or take depending on elevation). It just does. And they continue to do so DESPITE my belief (or lack of belief) about them.

Atheism is simply NOT having that particular app installed. Period. I don't believe in Santa, and yet I'm never accused of having an "anti-Santa" based belief... And I've especially never been accused of having a Santa-based ideology.

Ideologies go hand in hand with beliefs. There's no ideology there. There's no "belief" here. The app simply doesn't exist. Atheism accepts the nul hypothesis until and unless there is evidence to support installing the app in the first place.

Comparing Atheism to theism is like comparing apples to ginger bread. They have absolutely nothing in common.

Theist: "Do you have the app 'God' installed on your hard drive?"

Atheist: "No."

That's it. That's all there is.

And the definition of disbelief that comes up in a Google search includes "lack of faith", and includes atheism as a synonym.

dis·be·lief
?disb??l?f/Submit
noun
inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real.
"Laura shook her head in disbelief"
synonyms: incredulity, astonishment, amazement, surprise, incredulousness;

More
lack of faith in something.
"I'll burn in hell for disbelief"
synonyms: atheism, nonbelief, unbelief, godlessness, irreligion, agnosticism, nihilism
"in the film religious faith and disbelief are interwoven"

Yes, you're right- we have to be clear about definitions. According to the American Atheists org,
"Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods.

Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods."

But isn't a lack of belief the same thing as disbelief? If you lack belief, you don't believe. You disbelieve. The three phrases are equivalent.

tired old deliberate misinterpretation. atheists assert there is no EVIDENCE to support a creator. the example i frequently use with religious people is ... if we told kids aged 9 that god doesn't really exist, it was just a little fairytale to teach kids morals BUT continued to insist that guy in the red suit who brings you presents at christmas is real, believers would be Santa Clausians now not christians (other creator myths are available). Religious belief is a exercise in self-delusion on a mass scale.