If you've not done so, I'd recommend some research on the period and covert illegal programs during the Nixon period, the CIA under Richard Helms ( who believed in zero oversight of the agency) and the FBI under J.Edgar Hoover (need I say more about him, a totally corrupt man they simply could not oust in the job until he died in 1972). Try Operation CHAOS, Mkultra, and other agency ops now known about but nowhere near fully known -- nowhere fully known about. Try being an investigative journalist and get all the files and see what happens, and keep your eye on your family and their safety while you're at it. Think I'm joking? Don't take my word for it. You can do your own research.

There are suggestions about links to the CIA mind control programs, MKULTRA was part of that, as there are to the murders of the Manson Cult, but it's speculative though not without cause, and of course all the files were 'destroyed' when CIA Director Helms left in 1973. I believe that like I believe J. Epstein committed suicide, that is to say I don't.

@David1955 .......ok......now i get it .......... youre kidding around.

@holdenc98 what I said is factually true. Try doing some research on the period and these agencies and their programs. It might help. There are in America some real investigative journalists. Just don't look for them on CNN and MSNBC.

@David1955 .........im curious. do you see the black lives matter and the feminism agit-prop machine like propaganda storm being propagated right now through npr , pbs, all the netorks except fox, even including interlocking progaganda themes as conspiracy, or a diversionary arm ofa conspiracy? i can't see how you couldnt. and its product is much clearer than sirhan sirhan's. do you see the non stop propaganda fest as a smoke screen hiding nefarious "agency" ends?i can't get interested in cops and robbers theories of agency conspiracy, my basic antipathy to the humans in general leaves me a thorough going anti - human rasist. if the planet has any chance at all of surviving our current insanity, it would be by some regional amalgum of chinese and japanese intelligence taking over. an impossibility, of course, things are too far gone now. and it would take a book to show the faulty connection between power and intelligence among al the human tribes.. but then, who would read it? the same ones doing allthis "research"?

this "research" you urge on us, does your research rest on a base of personal happyness, misery, something else? that is key.

@holdenc98 the key is I'm a student of history, with a particular interest in the 60s and 70s period in the US, having been alive at the time, and having included in my university studies American class and power structure, the American Military Industrial Complex function in that power structure, and maintaining an active interest in all research material pertaining to that period.

You should avoid the psycho babble; you are not very good at, to be honest with you. And do study some English punctuation please.

@David1955 ..what a co inky dink! i am also an ex formal student of american history, social and intellectual. i got sick of that world and left iit (though not my interest in it) for personal reasons, years ago. but i applaud your persuit of it. but that is not reason for you to assume an unjustified high perch and succumb to loftyism. your first step toward the light i feel your mind deserves would be abandoning your suit. and now, thesuit and your tone make me wonder if youve made your way into some sort of establishment history sinecure. ive seen your mind work well to a point: therefore, my second advisory, abondon the sinecure. chompsky made it work, but theyre generally the kiss of death for free thought. look at you, reduced to lecturing to the snakes and the scorpions here on agnostic. i will admit your lofty pose here seems successful. but why choose to preside here in this barrel bottom? UNLESS YOUR LOOKING FOR THAT RAREST OF THINGS, A FREE THOUGHT out of nowhere.. or is it easy atta boy band aids for a stunted ego youre looking for? now there is some fancy-pants psycho babble!

which brings me to ........ i am suprised that you characterize my first thoughts as psycho babble. perhaps its a rushed judgement and not your best thinking. apparently theres a strain of high tone psycho babble that you like, but my words don't meet the mark? you make it hard for me to address the question (id like to!) because i don't know what words you took babble-offense to. ignore my happyness-misery riff if you'd prefer. it was meanmt as a possible overture to a rich and deep conversation. time would have told whether babble or not. it would have been a difficult conversation, i willingly abandon it.

but my words around the black lives matter/feminism riff, a major pre occupation of mine and an all consuming obsession for the media world. a taboo subject, my more important words.....about these words you have nothing to say . i was asking you for some free thought on these words, nothing came back. that raises a much more serious question than your babble charge. its not too late! say something smart and free about it. fullfill your potential? it could be the conversation of the century. we could have it privately if you have the well founded fears i would have if i were you of the effect it would have on your fan base here.

but for gods sake don't tell me to study my punctuation. unless youre trying to sound like an ass.
as for my punctuation, im a fan of ee cummings. remember that free old guy? im keeping it. why don't you study cummings? start with THE ENORMOUS ROOM. no suits in that jail cell.

He did it with the Manson people, just again recently, vetoing a parole recommendation as I recall. Of course here the family supported the release, which is curious I have to say. Generally they hate a precedent to be set, hence the actions to oppose Mansonite parolees.

Yeah because Newsom has fucked California into the dirt.

@Heavykevy1985 Is that where you get fucked? In the dirt?

@barjoe no but you obviously speak from personal experience, dirt bag. Considering that millions have left California with skyrocketing crime and homelessness. The same Gavin Newsom who forced Californians to shut down their restaurants all the While eating in a room with eleven other people at French Laundry with no masks on or social distancing

Agreed, although it's not difficult these days to find out about the history of these agencies, covert programs of that time (MKULTRA, CHAOS, the FBI infiltration program, the name I forget and many others). We don't know all the dirt -- they won't release all the files -- but we know dirt when we see it. Then there are the illegal interventions abroad, as you say. Problem is, people don't read or research these things and are too distracted by the nonsense around them. Moreover, they get their news from mainstream services which are designed to deflect and conceal and suppress. Finally, in the US you have a binary political party system with both parties while engaging in the political theatre are essentially controlled by the class and power structure of the country, and keeping the crimes of the agencies and military is part of what they are designed to do. Still, people's intellectual laziness allows these power structures to do what they do.

@David1955 You are right about all of it and covered all of it. Here in the US we are completely screwed between the system, the corporate media, and the sheeple behavior of the masses.