I was born and raised Catholic. I was very involved in the church as a child and didn't really have any negative experiences as a kid. At one point I actually contemplated becoming a priest, but I did not really like the idea of being celibate for the rest of my life. When I moved out of my parent's house I began to question my faith more,so I began to do research on my faith, which is not always a good thing for one's faith. Finally, in my late 30's I lost my faith entirely, but initially only identified as an agnostic. Over the last few years I became more at ease identifying as an atheist. Now, in the past few months I have actually began openly telling people my stance on religion. I never open a conversation saying I am an agnostic atheist, but if asked or it seems pertinent to the conversation I don't shy away from it anymore.
My wife is a Christian, and to whatever extent they can be, my kids claim to be as well. I am not sure, but it would not surprise me if my middle son was a closet atheist. My wife scared him at one point about being an atheist, even though she knew I was at that time. My wife and a couple of my kids go to church at least a few times a month. I work on the weekends so I never go with them (I have offered to go a few times when I was off just to do family time), but I have never attempted to disabuse anyone of their faith, especially my children.
The other day I was about 1 minute from getting into a friendly debate with my 18 year son about his faith, but I decided it might be a little more than he could handle. He asked what did the church ever did to me to make me not believe, as if I could just realize it was all BS without any problems, not to mention I do think churches have done things to others, but I let that one slide and just asked him why he did believe in a god. He basically told me he believes in God because he thinks life would be more depressing without one. At that point I decided to let it go, because I did not want to depress him.
I feel that I am open enough about it, but should I engage my kids more about why they believe or only answer questions when they ask, which is about all I do now?
I think you could also tell your child, who is a man now, that he is an 18 year old man, and you are happy that he knows his own mind, and you respect his choice to believe. Then you ask him, as an adult, it’s time for him to respect your beliefs. You can love each other all the world and a bit more, but you are not obliged to think in the same way, as you are also individuals as well as father and son.
I hope he is going to study humanities or science and university or other kind of school. He can debate with them! It’s a great place to be challenged and to find those who think alike!
Be open with them. I have three kids. In order the first could care less either way. The second is an atheist. The third claims she is a Christian. I raised them all the same with information on every main religion and atheism and have allowed them to make their own decisions.
If being depressed is his main reason for belief then he's believing out of fear alone. I think that's a good place to start with him. Show him that life can be fulfilling even without a god
Answer questions when asked - it's their life to lead however they choose - we don't raise them to be our carbon copies.
I agree, but you also aren't wrong for asking them they believe. I wouldn't bring it up, but I would be disconcerted if my kids were being taught that I'm going to hell for some reason. I can't help but thinking of the boy who asked to Pope whether his deceased father who was an atheist is in hell. The Pope of course said no. But think of the torment to that boy when his father died. In your scenario, I would have asked he thinks it's depressing, and had a discussion on his views, and maybe share yours. With religious friends of mine I usually just ask if they think god is just and all knowing? If so, god knew I would be an atheist from the beginning, and knew everything I'd do. So is it just for punishing me when god knew this was going to be the case beforehand? Also, would a just god punish me forever, because I was wrong? Then you can have a dialogue. I would assume he is asking you because he's comparing notes. Mom believes but Dad doesn't, there's a conflict there and its not being addressed. And he knows you but is hearing things about people like you in church that conflict with his experience, I'd imagine. So, we have conflicting notions of reality being presented, so somebody isn't telling him the truth. Avoiding the topic completely might make you look guilty.
Anyway, I'm not an expert, these are just my thoughts. You might look into parenting books written by atheists who address this much better than I can. But showing your concern to do what's best proves you're a good dad. Good luck and keep it up.
A lot of Christians say God is love and maybe in relation to your son maybe you could bring up God is love why are all the atrocities going on and maybe that's not love to me and how about when God told Moses to kill his son on top of the mountain what kind of father would do that that really sucks
My son is an athiest but he label himself as agnostic.
He asked question about religions and god and i have him honest answers. He never believed so i guess i don't have that problem.
I would suggest explain why you don't and answer any question they may have
Simply tell them that religion is a fairy tale, like all the others, to teach people right from wrong. Some fairy tales are better than others. Santa, the Easter Bunny and god is just a way for adults to pretend and to remind them to be good. Some people don't need those reminders - maybe those are the best people.
When we were expecting my son, my husband and I spoke quite a bit about how to raise him with regard to 'religious beliefs'. Granted it was quite a while ago, but I had already left the Catholic church many years before, and we decided to let him learn as he grew and decide for himself once he got old enough. Consequently, by the time he was ten, he knew many philosophies of Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, atheism, Hinduism, Judaism, and others.
He constantly confounded his teachers, because he chose his own belief system that incorporated what philosophy he believed was right for him from each. To this day, I find it amazing that people from other countries find it hard to fathom that he was actually raised in the United States. It's been that way since he was 12.
As far as other children, I would never try to dissuade them from believing in the religion they are currently indoctrinated to. My feeling is that it could cause more harm than good. Instead, If a child asks why you don't believe, start by explaining that just like there are many different religions, like Jewish, and (here add whatever you think they might know), and some people don't believe the same way, or at all.
If they ask more questions, I would only answer the questions they ask. I've said it before, but sometimes when a younger kid asks where she comes from, the answer she's looking for is 'Michigan', not the Origin of Species.
For your 18-year old, in fact, for any teen, I highly recommend giving them their own copy of the book Sophie’s World to read. This is a philosophical novel with twists and turns every step of the way through the history of philosophy that will have the reader puzzled, amazed and delighted. The introduction to the philosophers, from the ancients to the 20th century, as well as to the philosophical schools of thought are brief, understandable and enlightening. Most importantly, the book will gradually have the reader seriously thinking about the ‘why and how’ of nearly everything, including (perhaps ‘especially&rsquo religion. [goodreads.com]
I would recommend small steps for young children. Perhaps posing one question at a time, as they raise the issue of religion or have questions. Questions like: How would you know which god to choose? Marduk? Osiris? Isis? Ba’al? Brahma? Shiva? Vishnu? Cronus? Zeus? Odin? Ahura Mazda? Etc. Etc. You get the idea. There have been several billion gods if we include the Hindu gods. One estimate, not including them, is 28-million [atheism.wikia.com] Even if a realistic number is a small as a few thousand - how does one decide? By eliminating all of those ancient gods? Why? Are they dead? How can that be? Gods don’t die? Do they? Or were the people that believed in those gods simply wrong? What makes us think they were wrong but we are right about ours?
Ok, so you choose to believe in a ‘modern’ god. How would you know which religion to choose, from the several major religions? (Or, in your case the question might be - “how do you think mom chose her religion?&rdquo Do you choose one of the Abrahamic religions? Which one - Judaism? Christianity? Islam? Or what about one of the major eastern or others religions? How do you choose? If, for example, you choose Christianity, do you become a Catholic? A Protestant? A Mormon? Seventh Day Adventist? Etc. If Catholic or Protestant - which denomination, among hundreds? If Islam, which of the three sects? Why?
And which bible? The Koran? Or one of the dozens (literally!) of Christian bibles? Which would you choose to believe in? Why? And why are there so many choices? If the bible is the world of God, shouldn’t they all be the same? That is, shouldn’t there just be one choice? [en.wikipedia.org]
Assuming an individual can reasonably make the above choices, which specific church should they choose. Among each of these major denominations, the beliefs will be different, often based on the priest or pastor’s personal interpretation.
Or would it be better to think about the values you believe are correct, and choose a religion, a church, and bible, that reflect your values? [I personally think this is where one should begin, but how does one determine the true values of each of these religions?]
This is an overwhelming task, but these types of questions should help your children begin to think critically about this, as well as give them a way to think about all important subjects.
[To qualify myself: I am no expert, only a student of history and philosophy. With three young grandchildren, I have given a great deal of thought to this, on their behalf.]
I read that Sophie’s World, over 20 years ago, in one of my philosophy classes. I only vaguely remember it, but I did like it. I like the idea of exposing them to more options and then teaching them to think about why they are believing in what they do. This is a rare skill in today's world and would help my kids beyond religion and faith.
So you can absolutely focus on the logical flaws... Christians LIKE the church hurt you angle, it lets them say they are true and you left for bad reasons.. I would not leave that one on the table.
The life would be more depressing is also a bit of bad poetry, ask him why? If this is the only life we have, don't we have to make the most of it, take responsibility for our problems now? Not just suffer through things we might be able to improve.....
I did tell him I did not leave for anything bad. When I said I let it slide I just did not go into any detail and sadly probably left him unclear. I kind of rephrased his idea of "life is more depressing without god" for him, and said he seemed to be afraid he was going to die someday. He never corrected me, so I may have been wrong and I did not understand him well. I have talked to many people online about logical flaws in theistic beliefs, but I am still walking a fine line with my wife. She has a hard enough time accepting that I don't believe in a god. She views me questioning her, and by extension our kids, beliefs as me being mean to them. I have showed her posts from people responding to me on FB about how evil I was for being an atheist (an literally no other reason) and she just shrugged it off saying that it goes both ways, which at times it may, but in our country just due to shear numbers the battering ram is really only beating down non-believers. She can't see that though.
@TomS299 yeah, my ex and I rarely discussed religion. I did not care as long as she did not make demands on me and she was not dedicated. I never pushed for her to deconvert, but she overheard Dawkins saying the best predictor of what you believe is where you are born and that put the pebble in her shoe. False or bad ideas are often paired with good narratives to sell them. Whether its religion, racidm, nationalism.... i get the being mean charge and its a joke. You can still be honest, loving and caring without giving credit to our ancestors myths and legends. The very hard part is thet are taught they can't and have a huge communal reinforcement of this idea to keep them in the flock. Which is why they assume we are challenging the good parts without hearing us say we just want humanity to get past the bad.
The time to speak of was as soon as your wife used fear to manipulate your children. If you treat your lack of religion as something shameful and to be avoided, your children will treat it that way also. While you're trying to be respectful your wife is teaching your kids that there is something deeply wrong about their father. Speak up or live with regret.
I agree. I can't remember exactly how I reacted, but I know it was to timid no matter what I did. That was a couple of years ago and I have become a lot more comfortable telling people what I think about faith, religion, and belief in a diety. I have talked about not believing to all my kids and they at least know by example it is not bad to lack a belief in any gods.
I would let them come to you. Also teach them to question everything not just about religion. Hell, we now have a flat earth society. But most of all lead by example. Show them that people of no faith can be role models. Good people.
LOL, my only other post is about my brother being a flat earther and asking if and how I should approach him. I have been trying to lead by example ever since I lost my faith. I feel it is important to be the best person you can no matter what, but atheists are viewed as more vile than rapists, and I always I love getting people to scratch their heads in disbelief that I am not a Christian.
Keep being open. They will come back to you as they need questions answered. It cannot be done in an afternoon. I know one young Jehovahs Witness who was only 18 when we met and kept coming back to our house as he became infatuated with my daughter (!) and it took him some time to actually formulate the questions. Up until he met her, everything was on a no doubts, faith based acceptance. He had to learn how to question, to see our side of the argument. Don't know if he left the church, but he definitely became a more confident young man that summer. And, no, she never did go out with him.
I was also raised Catholic. Catholic schools thru high school. It was the 60's and the church was going thru a lot of changes. I guess it opened me up to other beliefs and then finding most if not all not making any sense if looked at without already having belief.
I let my kids figure it out and they are also Atheists.
Instead of being of the mindset of resolution or "conflict" why not just open their minds to new experiences that will expand their understand of the world around them. Like museums, or chemistry or volunteering at a homeless shelter. They are so many quality kid friendly chemistry projects online, or physics that teach children to understand unseeable concepts. Exposing them to varying human conditions will spark bigger questions that religion struggles to answer. Good luck and I hope you're successful in a drama free way.
Great answer!
@SeekingWisdom thank you, great handle or Username. I wish we were all... Instead of trying to share the one we think we already have. "The greatest hindrance to knowledge, is not ignorance but the perception that we all ready know."