Who is allowed to be proud?
If BIPOCs or LGBTQs celebrate their identity and show their "pride" they are showered with support and praise. If someone like me (white, straight, cis) did the same, he or she would be pilloried as a fascist.
Why?
The answer usually given is: BIPOCs and LGBTQs are minorities, but that answer only shifts the problem:
why are only minorities allowed to be proud of their identity?
Is being a member of a minority a moral quality in itself?
Is being a member of the majority a moral flaw?
Is there anyone who can give a logical explanation for this asymmetry?
1
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11 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.You said it yourself, "minorities" . The degree to which pride is justified is directly related to size, (Other things as well.) It is well justified to feel pride in your own achievements, acceptable to be proud of your group, and can be stretched to a minority just. But it is odd to be proud of belonging to a majority, and it would be very odd to be proud of being human, very strange to be proud of belonging to the mammals, and laughable to be proud to be a vertebrate.
Pride, if justifiable, is about personal worth, and the degree to which it is justified is exactly in proportion to your, and your immediate personal groups, part in the collective achievement, which dilutes with size.
Fernapple
Level 9
Apr 29, 2023
0
@Fernapple - What you write does not make sense IMO.
You could argue that one can ONLY be proud of personal achievements, but in this case Black Pride or Gay Pride would not be possible or acceptable.
Or you can agree with me that one can also be proud of one's identity group, and in this case I don't see any reason why size should matter. Why should it be "forbidden" to say "I self-identify as a European, and I embrace and celebrate this identity. There is a lot we Europeans can be proud of".
Besides, on the global scale, we Europeans are a minority, there are many more black and brown people on this planet...
@Thibaud70 And there is no reason at all why you should not be proud to be European, but that of course is only in the sense, that Europeans are a global minority. And, I do not think that anyone is saying that you should not be proud to be European, certainly I have been a proud European for many years and can not recall anyone telling me that it was wrong to be so, or even making an argument that hinted that I should not.
This is a unique period of history where we white males need to just sit down and take a break. We had it made for centuries, and now it's everyone else's turn.
If you want to be proud, be proud. You're just not going to get a parade for it. This also gives you an opportunity to sit back and think: What do I have to be proud of?
BitFlipper
Level 8
Apr 28, 2023
2
I do not feel the need to be proud. If other people tell me that I am very good at some things, then I accept their assessment for what it is, as it is nothing more than their own assessment of me. If other people call me shit-for-brains when I am sure of my facts, then I regard them as being cognitively impaired.
"Being allowed" requires somebody to make a judgment about the situation. I reject the premise of the question.
anglophone
Level 9
Apr 28, 2023
4
Just look around: there certainly is no shortage of people making judgments about who is allowed to do or say X or Y.
@Thibaud70 Your observation about there being no shortage of people making judgments has no bearing on the question at the start of your post and does nothing to support the premise thereof.
@Gwendolyn2018 Sorry, being infernally logical is just one of things I do. 
@Gwendolyn2018 Chuckle. You may be female, but I do not see you as being illogical.
Political correctness in play there me thinks. All in the name of what's politically correct.
SpikeTalon
Level 9
Apr 28, 2023
1
Well…. Normal people don’t have to (or feel the need to) celibate being normal.
The mentally ill ‘Celibate’ their ignorance in an effort to normalize their personal level of sheer stupidity.
It’s easier and more fun to just openly laugh at them and point out their negative life choices than really worry about it.
CourtJester
Level 7
Apr 28, 2023
0
The majority identity has included campaigns of oppression and eradication to the minorities and that is no longer thought of as something to be proud of. The minorities have struggled for mere legitimacy since our beginning (and before that but I'll stick to our nation's existence) against policies that would kill or imprison them. As you can guess, those policies create a feeling of shame, even disgust, for what a person seems to be so the slogan of Pride is simply meant to push away the negative majority stereotype and focus on the positive idea (our Right to equally exist). Only positivity can push off oppression and it seems to be working. The majority have power, which gives their protectionist ideas cover to become law, so they don't really need a battle cry. In fact, it would be nice if they'd drop the battle and accept the change of attitude.
rainmanjr
Level 8
Apr 28, 2023
1
If you actually feel the need to ask this obviously flawed question and are not just trolling you are a bigot
LenHazell53
Level 9
Apr 28, 2023
2
People who are incapable of giving a reasonable answer at least feel some relief when they can break winds... 
@Thibaud70 And people who lack the intelligence to admit when thy have made a mistake most often resort to petty, immature name calling
@LenHazell53 Who is calling names like "bigot" and "troll" ??
If my question was so obviously flawed as you claim, you would have pointed out this flaw long ago. But you are unable to do this.
When people like you meet someone who smells a little different from the rest of your herd, they start screaming and spitting. This is your way of debating?
@Thibaud70 I am not debating with you as you are incapable of debate, since as I said in my original post you cannot see what is wrong with your question, nor can you see the flaws in your argument.
Attempting to debate you would be like playing chess with a chicken, a chicken does not understand the rules, kicks over the pieces and then struts about acting like they have won anyway.
I hope I am getting through to you, but if you choose to engage me again on this subject, I shall cease to assume any level of intelligence on your part and address you as befits such a bloviating bombast, that is to say in the manner befitting a spoiled five year old.
Two different meanings of the word pride.
Fernapple
Level 9
Apr 28, 2023
7
Please do not get hung up on words. If you prefer, replace the expression "to be proud of X" with "to celebrate the identity of X".
But I don't think that there is anything wrong with the word 'pride' because if you identify with a given community, you can feel pride about the achievements of this community. That one can only feel proud about personal achievements does not make sense.
Here goes.
I could be wrong about this, but here's my take.
To be proud of something you didn't earn and can't control is silly. Should I be proud I'm 6'2"? Should I be proud I have brown hair or green eyes? Should I be proud if my ancestors came from Greece? To me, that's silly.
But I don't think that's what these groups are saying. What I believe they're saying is that they're proud they are existing/surviving/thriving in a world with the odds stacked against them. So, what exactly are the struggles of a straight, white, cis, male that you should be so proud of overcoming? Hell, do you even have any accomplishments to boast about, independent of those qualities? Or do you just want to say that a bunch of people in history with nice white skin boned a lot to ultimately, accidentally make you?
If I'm wrong, or off, I hope someone will enlighten me.
ChestRockfield
Level 8
Apr 28, 2023
4
@ChestRockfield - You're mistaken,.
When people celebrate Black Pride or Gay Pride, they do not celebrate any kind of (personal or collective) achievement or accomplishment but simply their identity, the fact that they are what they are, Black or gay or whatever.
Example: "Black Pride in the United States is a movement which encourages black people to celebrate African-American culture and embrace their African heritage (Wikipedia).
Now replace the words "Black" with "White" and "African" with "European" in that sentence and you have fascism (at least that's what most people, especially leftists, would say.)
My question again: why is the celebration of identity (NOT achievement!) of a minority group something to be supported, but the same celebration of a majority group something we have learned to detest?
@Thibaud70 I guess you missed the word "existing" in the part about the "odds stacked against them". So you were just hoping people would simply support and justify your shitty, echo-chamber-cultivated ideas, not actually asking to understand or gain some perspective. Got it.
@ChestRockfield I was hoping to receive a reasonable answer. Well, not from you.
Now you can wipe the froth from your mouth.
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