I guess your right religion is a wonderful way to unite people. Like all the wars it has caused, that must be a great way to unite people! NOT.

@IpraiseMYSELF hmmmm, do you want an honest nuanced discussion or merely venting?

@educatedredneck I do not need discussion, mainly just venting right now! But if you like to know how I truly feel I have a lot of comments in P.A.T.C.H. a group on my home page about this subject! If you comment on some of them I will be happy to answer any questions or have a FRIENDLY debate with you!

@IpraiseMYSELF ok, I'm not in PATCH and fairly busy for a few weeks.

BTW, I largely agree w you on wars, monotheism is a godsend for empire building, there's even a few good things there but mostly probably bad.

Any society needs some level of unity and religion is a unifying factor, with some extreme costs for that unity.

I've heard secular scholars who claim the Church of England and Xtianity played an integral role in first codifying basic rights for peasants.

BTW I prefer dialectics over debates

That sounds like a politicians answer! lol.

@IpraiseMYSELF A little explanation may be in order. I was raised Catholic and remember with great fondness the community which welcomed extended families. Elderly great grandparent to infants and cared and respected all. That is the good. I abhor the indoctrinated beliefs that all had to endure and now consider it a form of child abuse. Of five children, I am the only one who was able to break free of the lies.

@bobhoff59 Thanks for the explanation, I agree with your statement about the indoctrinated beliefs, but for me I never felt welcome at any churches unless I was putting money in the tithing box. It seems to me that the church pushes away the poor and homeless at service time because they do not want to smell them or they want that seat for a paying customer not a beggar. Then they love to go out to the street and hand out free soup in order to get tax exempt status from Uncle Sam and prove to be pillars of the community. I was homeless for years and I remember the majority of the homeless community to be drunks and drug addicts who used the church to get a free meal. So who is the church really helping? Drunks and drug addicts or the working man who is having a difficult time? The truth is that the church sends the majority of the tithes and offerings overseas to other countries for missions and spreading their gospel. So why are they getting tax exempt status if the only communities they are helping are other countries and feeding drug addicts? I disagree that the church cares and respects all, because I have seen their lies and hate first hand. The church is all about greed, power and money!

A vagina is free to decide her choices. ...you are ignorant and wrong to post any penis belongs in any vagina. ...humans are complex endocrinological evolving beings. ...our hormones and brains vary widely so much so that some people are born with both vagina and penis some ovaries do not decend into labia and grow into testicles inside a growing scrotum. ...choose whatever lover you might or masturbate during any safe fantasy but don't pretend to be an Atheist dictating binary sex obligations

First of all, if i do not believe in GOd , I definately have the right to say
I AM AN ATHEIST, second of all, use your brain before you speak, third of all NATURALLY a woman and a man complete each other!

@delilah What basis do you have, in other words what evidence do you have that a woman and a man complete each other?

@Willreef two women can NOT naturally give BIRTH to a baby after sex; two men can NOT give birth to a baby after sex too.

@delilah the choice to give birth DOES NOT DEFINE WOMEN and only bigots believe lesbians are deviants. ...it is the bigot who is the deviant pretending a vagina is not complete without a penis .....infertile women are under no obligation to be ed nor are girls subject to male entitlement. ....this idiocy by "delilah" is pure patriarchy no doubt remnants of xian brainwashing. ...our Atheism is not simple departure from church. ...our Atheism is critical thinking in action and zero genuine Atheists would spew obligations of vaginae to be penetrated

@delilah So you only think a woman and a man can only be complete if they produce a child (for my analogy lets assume they are married.) What about a couple that can't reproduce and use a surrogate ? Is the man then somehow complete with the surrogate and not his wife? There's a myriad of examples I could use. But I think the problem stems from your limited understanding of humans, in every manner. Your definition of complete is so, so very incomplete.

@Willreef misogynistic bigotry by Delilah leads me to consider she is faking Atheism here a real zealot for zygotes wanting all women to stay pregnant

@GreenAtheist Yeah, I find it very difficult to believe Delilah is not trolling. I find even more difficult to believe that "she" is an atheist and holds such entirely backwards views. The reason I put she in quotes is because it could easily be a man trolling. My hope is that this community finds a way to deal with the trolls so our time is used to move the world forward rather than wallowing through their shit.

@Willreef i do not know all about the world and i would definitely not say i am intelligent enough to teach. NO, i would not say. I would say though, All human beings have to right to live as long as they are not harming themselves and others. Atheist do not believe in god because they are logical thinker which i am fond of. NOw if we put the hatry aside , we all came from our mothers and fathers. YES, even you came from your mother, woman, and your father, man. Correct me , if i am wrong. Our exists are due to our parents ,mothers and fathers and it is not my opinion but a FACT. Whether you accept it (fact or not ) , the fact is still the fact.

@Willreef, @GreenAtheist , ''all women to stay pregnant'' is not what i say . You misunderstood me. I said all human beings have the right to live FREELY as long as they do NOT harm themselves and others. The relationship between two woman can be (MUST NOT) sister-ship, friendship and or whatever-ship but NOT sexual-relation . THe same stays true for the relationship between two man.

@delilah so you want bedroom police to stop gays in love and stop lesbians in love....do you really want to fuck a gay man STRAIGHTEN HIM WITH YOUR VAGINA AND HAVE A GAY CHILD ?????

@delilah I can't have a conversation with you unless you proofread your comments so they make logical sense.

@Willreef child birth is a good way that a woman and man complete themselves. What proof do you have that they do not?

@Willreef If your parents thought like you do, we all would not need to suffer through your ignorant comments because you would have never been born. I support freedom of sexuality for gays but the fact is that if everyone was gay our species would die out. Oh and by the way if being gay is so great then why are gays always trying to convert straight people into being gay? sometimes people make being gay almost as bad as a religion trying to convert the world.

@Willreef What makes you think atheists are moving the world forward when there isn't enough of us to fill a high school football field! lol. I do not like religion but at least they stand together against atheists, we can't even stand together against religion and we are the minority.

I know a billion reasons why xian activity is bad.... billions of violated boys and billions of violated girls many still alive terrorized by faiths and raped by thousands of clergy

@GreenAtheist that's not Christianity, that's grooming and abuse. 2 quite distinct things. I know people that have been raped whilst in the care of Christian organisations, and some that have had that experience from family friends and family members; none hold Christianity accountable for what happened to them! That's a bizarre connection to make and what about the millions of abusers aren't affiliated to the Christian faith? Sorry, it's no dice for that argument with me!

Jesus is a liar! He CLAIMS that the Jews are the holy people of god, which is racism! When any other race does this it is wrong but when the Jews do this everyone thinks it is ok. Jesus himself said, " you do not take bread given to the children and give it to dogs!" He (Jesus) is calling anyone who is not Jewish a dog! The Jews even have a racist term for everyone who is not Jewish, they call us GENTILES!

@IpraiseMYSELF I disagree, It was God that called the Jews the chosen people (allegedly). Jesus had massive issues with the establishment of his time, i.e. the Jews. I'm not in the least bit bothered by anyone who calls me Gentile, or Heathen or any other monika that indicates that I'm agnostic, it's their call.

@girlwithsmiles There is no god, so when the Jews say god told them anything they are lying and using a false imaginary being to get what they want! Just because Jesus had problems with the Jewish leaders doesn't mean he did with Jews. He clearly states that salvation is ONLY for the Jew. Paul is the one who opens salvation up to everyone else! I'm glad your not bothered by annoying Christians but I am, and I have the right to speak out about it!

@IpraiseMYSELF there is no God, so any discussion is hypothetical/ academic/ whatever you wish to call it, however it's a bit like discussing characters in any book, if one person said one thing and another said something else.
I really don't know any racist Jews, although I understand that people of one faith often want their family to marry those of the same faith, probably just as we'd rather our kids marry someone who is capable of open minded logical thought, (if I had kids).
No, the people that bother me don't usually do so with their religion, it's their attitude and vibes that count, if I can turn hippie for a moment!

@PalacinkyPDX ah, I see, perhaps it's just because I don't actually know any Jewish people, in the flesh, I only, 'know of' the many Jewish entertainers that abound our television and movies. Point taken.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CHRIST! How can you be an atheist and believe in a Christ!

@IpraiseMYSELF What do you care what I believe when it impacts you not at all. I do not follow a particular religion nor all the teachings of Jesus Christ. I take a combination of many religious leaders or simply people who do good works and apply it to my life.
What I find interesting is that I thought that religion caused bigotry for the most part but I found some here which was surprising.

@Iamkratom I care because I am tired of religion destroying the world and causing war which would definitely impact me! I care because I want the world to be a better place without hateful religions fighting each other. I care because there is a million places for your religions but only a few non-religious places that theists want to take over. I care therefore i speak!

@IpraiseMYSELF Highly unlikely this party of one will start a war anytime soon. My psychic talked of an after life. Is she in trouble too??? You're are speaking of organized religion. Not individuals who are against churches for the very same reason you outlined. If my spiritual walk is leading me in the direction to do good deeds, vote response people in office, what do you care? We have the same goals just different pathways

Christians represent the stupidity of Christianity and therefore become bad even if they are doing good things!

There are plenty of reasons to get bent out of shape. If they would just practice their cult and leave the rest of us alone, that would be fine. However, the Religiously Impaired impact the lives of those who do not subscribe to their cult. Example: Planned Parenthood. I could go on and on.

There are SOooo many versions of “Christianity”, Islam, Buddhism that one should not (IMO) condemn the whole group that needs magical people or events to feel good. That’s like condemning all whites for killing ALL the native Americans, or hating blacks for one crooked black person- it’s all silly (and pathetic) to generalize in this manner! There are ethical and honest in all theocratic beliefs, same as there are for atheists/agnostics! Some atheists forget to have better ethics than the religion they are generally condemning. Yes, there are some just plain bad people- religion aside.

Keep in mind though that according to the bible (since its the only "historical document" of Christ) Jesus said he did not come to bring peace, but war. He also said he held to the letter of the law ie the old Testament

@ashortbeauty see here for 50 asshole things said by Jesus, with bible references [dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.co.uk]

@ashortbeauty As I mentioned above, take that sentence symbolically then apply it to yourself. As for the letter of the law ie, the old testament look at the context of the entire encounter. The law of the old testament, what is it? The importance of that understanding will give some interpretation to his having said that. To which letter of the law is he referencing. To whom is he speaking? Also, there are other accounts of the sayings of Christ which were left out of the Cannon, as they were too profound to be understood.. I suggest a reading of the Gospel of St Thomas, which was left out when the Council of Nicea Circa 365 AD gathered together high ranking officials of the then various competing interpretations of the Catholic Church and they decided amongst many various writings concerning the first century what to put in and what to leave out. Thanks for commenting on my post.

@LenHazell53 If you take the time and read them without prejudice, then you might, just might see through these modern misconceptions. Furthermore,I suggest you read the philosopher Kierkegaard then Nietzsche. Follow that up with the essays by Heidegger on thought and being. Then the poetry of Rilke and Holderlin. It will take a decade to grasp, then return with something of value rather than opinions. True opinions and short comments are fun and I do it myself quite often. But when it comes to a matter of a thought out post, you might take time to provide a thoughtful response. I will go to the blog, as you suggested. This will be fun. Thanks for sharing that info.

@LenHazell53 I read the blog of Mr. Wells as you suggested. Now read the first chapter of Heidegger's essay called 'Thought, Language. Poetry. It's online as a pdf file. Compare his writing with Heidegger. As for the depth and length of the disparity between discourses, I will leave you to that comparison. Oh, by the way, Mr. Well’s writing truly is elementary. But then hopefully he has an agent who advised him to write that for the sake of sales. Otherwise, if this is an example of the level of thinking he can reach, then I can only say, everyone goes as far as they can.

@philosophy the laws of the old Testament were to basically corral in people's thinning to one right way and many wrong ways of living. It took away choice and replaced it with murderous acts of treachery.

While your to do list is much appreciated maybe take a step down from time to time to learn how to better approach people.

And you completely skipped over our Lord coming to bring war, not peace. Even if taken symbolically (which I shouldn't have to argue since to never responded) why bring turmoil instead of enlightenment, togetherness, or wonder?

@philosophy The Gospel of Thomas was not left out of the Canon of scripture at the councilS (plural) of Nicea and the Council of Ankara, it was left out (And destroyed to the Best of their efforts) because it undermined the power of the church too much, as were the gospels of the disciples, the gospel of Mary, the gospel of Judas, the apocrypha of Peter and dozens of others.

@philosophy Either the words of the bible mean what they say or they don't.
If they do the bible is an evil book, old and testament and if it were not a religious text would probably be banned.
If they don't, what is the point, it means none of it can be trusted, all of it it open to cherry picking and reinterpretation into whatever you want and can be made to say precisely the opposite of what it does say, who would want that? Oh yes a powerful church with enormous wealth and a a billion gullible sheeple following them, ask a silly question.

We have nothing but the Bible to say that this Jesus guy ever existed, and nothing we have was written during his lifetime (or for almost a century afterward). None of it was written by anyone who could have known him IF he existed. Why bother to follow such nonsense?

@AtlGeekWoman There is mention by the Roman/Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (A.D. 37 – c. 100) was a Jewish historian born in Jerusalem. In a passage from his work Antiquities 20:200, he writes as follows: Having such a character ["rash and daring" in the context], Ananus thought that with Festus dead and Albinus still on the way, he would have the proper opportunity. Convening the judges of the Sanhedrin, he brought before them the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, whose name was James, and certain others. He accused them of having transgressed the law and delivered them up to be stoned. But those of the city residents who were deemed the most fair-minded and who were strict in observing the law were offended at this. Accordingly, they secretly contacted the king [Herod Agrippa II], urging him to order Ananus to desist from any more such actions, for he had not been justified in what he had already done. Some of them even went to meet Albinus, who was on his way from Alexandria, and informed him that Ananus had no authority to convene the Sanhedrin without his consent. Convinced by these words, Albinus wrote in anger to Ananus, threatening him with punishment. And King Agrippa, because of this, deposed him from the high priesthood, in which he had ruled for three months. (There is no mention of divinity and such. Nor any of what later was written by Paul. It was this man, Paul who created Christianity with its hell and heaven. A man who was a murderer). You might take a read from the philosopher Nietzsche on Paul. He utterly destroys him and everything he stood for. You will find it very interesting.

@philosophy That mention is in a passage that most scholars consider to be a later addition to the text. I'm already convinced that Paul was a disgusting excuse for a human and author of most "Christianity."