Agnostic.com

21 8

LINK Ask Your Baby's Permission Before Changing Diaper, Says Sexual Consent Expert

How hilarious is this? There is no end to fashionable madness.

Hellbent 7 May 10
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

21 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

6

When my little guy was a baby, there were hundreds of times he didn't consent. Babies like to be naked! This seems utterly ridiculous to me.

If they don't consent, you should obviously leave them in their own mess and wait for social services to take them away.

6

Thats interesting.... i would to see at least 5 PHD'S agree on this. I never heard of a sexual consent expert.

6

Second response - this just pisses me off. Why? Well, I found out two years ago that my brother never saw his kids naked beyond the few days after they were born. He would put them in shorts to bathe them. Why? Because he felt curious when he saw their little penises, and was convinced that he must obviously be a sexual predator, and had to protect his kids from himself.

Let me get this very straight. I asked him VERY specifically what he meant by curious. He described something that, if sexual perversion, pretty much applies to everyone I've ever known with a son. He wondered how big or small a baby boy's penis was, and he was a bit incredulous and how huge their testicles were. His wife had strong feelings, so they didn't circumcise them, and as my brother is circumcised, he had some curiosity about how the foreskin worked, and kind of slid it back and forth just to see. ON A ONE DAY OLD INFANT and with no sexual intent or feelings. I asked him, and he was being very open, and he said, no, he didn't feel aroused or even think about sex or gratification. It was just curiosity.

But this society has made it so that a perfectly good man, honest man, non-perverted man, felt so bad about being the least bit curious about his children's anatomy that he even bathed them with shorts on.

I don't know how or if this will affect his kids, but I don't imagine it gave them a good awareness of their body if anything.

Also, is this person a parent? A parent knows when the kid is ready to have more privacy. It happens pretty naturally, and if a parent is stupid about it, a kid will generally make it very definite. I gave my daughter showers probably longer than most people do, because she has HORRIBLY curly hair, and couldn't/wouldn't wash it herself. But there was a day when she said, you have to wash my hair without looking at me. So I did, but that didn't last long haha! Finally got her to do her own damn hair.

Exactly! My two boys both independently told us when they wanted to bath/shower alone. At that point we said fine, made sure they could wash themselves properly and left them to it. We ask them have you washed this, have you washed there, the rest is up to them.

@smoyle Right! And you know what? Asking your 10-year-old if he washed his penis and under his balls is NOT a sexual statement!

6

I'm going to post two comments, because I have two separate responses.

This is the first one. If the goal is to lower abuse, think about this. Is there a parent who otherwise would have sexually abused their child, who is now not going to because of this practice? Jesus fuck.

No but there may be a care worker or relative who will find the child less of an easy target if the child knows that people aren't meant to touch them without consent.

Victim blaming it's the child's fault for letting things happen ...bollocks

5

""But if you leave a space and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you’re letting that child know that their response matters," she said. "
Note that last bit "you’re letting that child know that their response matters," This is what she's trying to achieve, not some nonsense about arguing with infants.
If 60s kids had known this, and that authority figures don't have any right to touch your body, maybe there'd have been fewer paedophile success stories emerging now.
Maybe women would feel more comfortable in public places knowing that the men around them had been raised to think consent to any touching was important.
Maybe we'd have broken free of the pre-medieval (and literally religiously enforced) idea that offspring and women are possessions.
Maybe not too, but going by the evidence what we're doing ain't working.

That's nice thoughtful comment, made after reading the article and thinking about it, rather than writing a gut response after reading the headline. Thanks for that.

@Stephanie99 From the article - ‘I’m going to change your nappy now, is that OK?’, "then you’re letting that child know that their response matters" If the child's response is "no that's not OK" but you change it anyway then you’re letting that child know that their response DOES NOT matter.

@smoyle The world is not black and white.

@Stephanie99 Thanks. I have just finished exactly the same argument on FB, so I may have had some practice.

4

Not insane at all, if you read the article she explains that you're training children to expect to have their wishes respected. One of the reasons it's so easy for predators to target kids is the kids expectation that adults are always in charge. If you teach your kids, by example,that their bodies must be respected they'll resist if someone tries touching them inappropriately.

@atheist the point is that you're teaching them to expect bodily autonomy.

@atheist couldn't hurt especially if you're discussing it with them as they get bigger too

4

Want entitled horrible shitty children....this is how you get them.

Nope, this is how you get kids who understand that it's not ok for adults to take advantage of them.

@Blindbird no you can do that by having conversations with them , plus this is also victim blaming as if it's the child's fault for giving permission for someone to do something wrong to them . Children know when something wrong is being done to them it's not their choice . It's the sick bastards that are doing these things that people need to concentrate on so that they are stopped in the first place

@Simon1 this IS part of having conversations with them. Just like study habits, healthy eating etc. The most effective way to teach is to weave the lesson into everyday activities. Normalize bodily autonomy and the concept of consent and they'll fall into it so naturally they won't even realize you're teaching them anything.

@Blindbird that's what good parents do , the way this lady is suggesting things is giving to much responsibility to the child and passively excusing sick people's behaviour .

@Blindbird I think what is getting to people and is that children should be left to be children. And not need to worry about stuff like this as it's the adults job to protect them . I know it's not an ideal world but the people that this kind of thinking that this kind of thinking is intended to stop don't care about the child's opinion . We as adults need to step up and truly protect the children

@Blindbird " this IS part of having conversations with them." Thank you. You've put it much better than I did.

4

Did you read the article? I don't think it's ridiculous at all. She acknowledges that babies cannot verbally give consent, but that their body language may tell you something. I have a relative who was repeatedly molested by her stepfather for years, and one of her actions as a parent now is to make sure her young daughter knows she can refuse someone's touch if she is not comfortable with it. All this woman in Australia is doing is communicating that message to much younger children.

4

??

3

Oh for fuck sake!

3

good grief

3

I'm thinking she's a self-professed expert? Who can possibly consider her credible?

Agreed

3

Right you are, hilarious indeed.

2
1

It was always my position as a parent that you don’t offer children a choice if they don’t have one. That only sets you up for an argument. NOT “Do you want peas?” But instead “Do you want peas or carrots?” “No” is not an option. parents who end every sentence with, “ok?” end up arguing and negotiating because they imply that toddler gets to decide for themselves whether to eat vegetables, wear a seatbelt or leave the playground when told.

1

Sure enough

1
1

Makes sense! Always establish connection and assent where possible, and as they get older, give them as much choice as you can.

So what happens if they say no? You either leave them in their own crap or go against their wishes which only reinforces their lack of choice. Children often will make the wrong choices. It's good to let older children make their own mistakes, but if they're young enough to be in nappies it's the parents responsibility to be in charge.

@smoyle You missed the entire point. It's best to avoid forcing things on either kids or animals. If you are patient and establish eye connection, they will likely allow you to do what you want. This has worked even when I'm working to free trapped wild animals, in pain, and I was vulnerable to being injured.

@birdingnut no, I do not believe I missed the point. The point of the article is to teach the child that people need consent to interact with their genitals. A parent does not need consent to change their child's nappy. In fact if a parent complies with their baby's wishes concerning hygiene then they are guilty of neglect. The article suggests you give the child the illusion of choice where they actually don't. Why ask the child yes or no when you already know there is only one acceptable answer. Do you want to eat your dinner? "no thank you" - tough luck, you have to eat it. Pointless.

@smoyle I think I might have to block you. My parents forced me to eat meat when I was little and it only turned me into a vegetarian, once I had a choice. They forced me into religion, which I also rejected. You sound like a typical male..forcing your will on people, like Trump does. Good bye.

@birdingnut forcing you to eat meat is worlds apart from ensuring you don't starve. Forcing religion on you has absolutely, absolutely f'ing nothing to do with ensuring you have a clean nappy. Comparing me, and by the sounds of it all typical males, to Trump because I don't agree with you is moronic. Please do block me, I'm growing tired of your inane remblings.

And that's how a pigeon plays chess .....

0

Can I cuss? Wtfn

0

That's just stupid. There, I said it. No regrets.

0

What else are you supposed to respect? They don't want to eat, so you don't try to feed them? They don't want to go to bed, so you let them stay up all night? They don't feel like going to school? Well, you get the picture.

I skimmed the article, I'll admit. It seems clear that this is classic conflation of nudity and sex: changing a nappy means that a child's genitals are exposed, and any time this happens, there must be consent, presumably because genital exposure is automatically sexual.

As someone who's raised their child as a naturist (he sees me naked around the house regularly, went on his first naturist holiday with me and my ex at 6 years old, and goes on one most years, though he's never expected to be naked himself unless he wants to be) I believe this sends precisely the wrong signals. Kids brought up in naturist families tend to have better adjusted attitudes towards sex as they mature: there's a proven correlation between prudish societies and teen pregnancies. This just takes prudery to level... silly.

It's true that kids need to be taught that only trusted adults (parents and medical professionals) should be able to touch them in certain ways and on certain body parts, and that certain types of touching should be reported to a trustworthy adult, regardless of who's doing them and how they've attempted to justify it. Consent to sex should not be confused with consent to nudity. You do not need your child's consent to change a dirty nappy.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:78407
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.