Agnostic.com

32 8

Honesty time — how tightly wrapped are your morals?

First post and it's a deepie, but I'm interested: I've grown up an atheist so have never worried that there's someone 'watching'... And to be honest, I've lived my life amorally — I have a strong moral code of fairness and kindness, but only where it suits me, and until recent years was quite unconcerned about being a thief, a liar and a self-centred manipulator.

Alright, much of that may stem from my psychological makeup after a weird childhood, and I'm not okay with being any of those things these days as I'd rather be proud of the person I am. But I realised that it had crept up on me and I'd accommodated it, as I had no fear of ever being 'found out'.

I'm interested to know if any of you have bent your morals to suit yourself, or if you've always been 'good'.

DaveMania 6 May 17
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

32 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

I had a weird childhood too, abusive parents with mental health problems that the wider family wouldn't help with so I was pretty much on my own growing myself up .I read at an early age and lived in books - I fantasised a great deal and basically lied without knowing that it wasnt a great strategy , then I decided to never lie and got into quite a lot of trouble with that one as well.I like the idea of lying if I really need to to get myself out of bother but most especially if someone else is being arsey. I am not great at communicating with more than one person at a time so sometimes I just run away - It makes people wary of me and that helps me too - they should be wary. I have d.I.D and if triggered communications can get very silly.

jacpod Level 8 June 14, 2018

Yeah — I recognise the fantasist part. I moved house an awful lot as a child and didn't have a long term home until I was 10, so I never had a sense of where I came from. As a result I fabricated my backstory to sound far more exotic than I actually was, and kept that behaviour up well into my thirties... To an embarrassing degree.

0

We are all unique in terms of our mental makeup. You could argue it's nature, nurture or both that shaped your way of thinking. Regardless, some are fairer than others. We all won't arrive there at the same time and, in some aspects of life, we probably won't get there at all The key is to communicate and listen to ideas about fairness and morality, look at ourselves and decide whether these ideas are for us. Someday, someone will appreciate your efforts.

0

The only "morality" that counts is not to harm the person or property of another. Outside of that, your life is full of choices as to what you consider ethical. Stealing, killing, battery, vandalism are wrong. Period. Sexual lifestyles and proclivities, religious doctrinal choices, philosophical leanings, personal benefit (greed) vs the common good are all personal choices that should be open to anyone. Not to say that one won't be judged for them - we all judge each other (and ourselves) constantly - but that level of morality should never be legislated.

1

Had a bit of a weird childhood myself, which left me very sensitive to the golden rule -- specifically to how much life can suck without it.

Interestingly, tho raised in a very conservative religious family (for the most part, that's part of the weirdness) I've never had any sense of being watched by anyone, either natural or supernatural, so that never factored into my morality.

0

My moral fortitude is strong now but hasn't always been. I cheated on partners when I was in my 20's but learned a (and well deserved) lesson and changed as a result. I have never stolen anything because I was raised learning to work for what you want and that taught me to respect others stuff. I truly struggle with understanding how people can continue to want to overpopulate a struggling planet and find it to be happy for friends who are pregnant, it leads me to believe that they're not paying attention.

1

Studies Show that People who are Good lead happier lives. I like Richard Carriers take on Morality (in Sense & Goodness without God). Everyone should pursue Happiness, but with Compassion and Integrity. So in other words, while you may put yourself first you will do so as long as it doesn't hurt others, society as a whole and doesn't undermine your own personal integrity.

0

Oh yes, I have bent them. When I do this I am shocked at my own depravity.

2

The one among us who does not admit to having had moral lapses would be the least honest of all. When we do have those lapses, it is common to make excuses to try to justify why it happened. Truth is it is very hard controlling your animal instincts 100 percent of the time.

3

I shoplifted when I was kid. Started at about age 7. Comics. Marbles. Silly String. Candy. Whatever I thought I could snag right then, for free. Off and on, not too bad. I have some stories, though. One very close call, but got away with it. I stopped all that foolishness around age 14. Except a couple times at 17.

These days, I just try to be the best me that I can. I love interacting with people. I don't ever think about in terms of morals, though. I just do whatever it is I'm gonna do, and I don't consider any of it immoral.

I'd say we've all bent our morals at some point, though.

2

I also have an atheist background & never had a god . My mother was Manic and Brutal, my Father, Depressive and weird like a boxer on the ropes.

I lied a lot didn't do any of the other things just lied whether I had to or not -

At some point I realised that it wasn't good for me and I decided to tell the truth all the time unless it would hurt me to do so - I was a really strange child older than my years and nobody really knew how to deal with me -

These days as an old lady I feel obliged to not be so forthright and to be a bit more political about what I say and to whom. My partner is straight as a die and doesn't mind my truths and he also tutors me to understand how to get out of situations with no unpleasantness.

1

There is Right, and there is Wrong, and most of all, None of My Business!

3

My morals seem to be stuck to me like glue..its from how I was taught and raised..it could have been different but it wasn't.. that's the way my family..my extended family my teachers most of my friends and my community acted..so I have this Deep set of cultural morals..many of which are out dated..some of which are silly.

But .. here is the thing! Not wanting to spend my whole life as a goody twoshoes I have occasionally stepped outside my own adopted moral boundaries but it hardly ever sits well with me..and my conscience follows me around like a hurt lost and blind puppy dog. I do try to be a bad boy sometimes..but I never truly pull it off. Sometimes morals and principles are like a ball and chain made of elastic bands...they keep pulling you back to your better self. I fell pathetic sometimes and fiercely proud other times.

6

I know it makes me feel bad when I do something that causes other people to feel bad. So it’s beneficial for me to do good things rather than bad. In a way it’s selfish, but that’s ok in my book.

KenG Level 6 May 17, 2018

Yep that's it in a nutshell. It's like the path of least resistance...it's your default...Same here.

I hear you. It feels so good to be kind and generous to others.

1

Hmmmm.... the difference between the good, the bad, and the ugly... Thats a rough one Dave. Heres a question. 1. Should we disclose secret desires?
2. Should we open up ugly relationships and be public with pictures and names? Hell... its happening today. Its on the news. You can run but you can't hide. Moral behavior is a unique question. Lets say im running for Congress. 10 years earlier it hit on a person at a party. They kept the conversation going and laughing all the time. That same person discloses this information to the public. Now im screwed. Forget about running for congress. Lets feel sorry for the person writing the book about thier adventures trying to get promoted. How many people goof off at parties with alcohol? I can't count the times someone grabbed my ass at these events. These were salary people too. Have i been good? What is good? Good is a unique attitude. Do you look at tha babes on the beach. Is that bad? Does your wife say look at that guys muscles.Wow! Is that bad or good?

1

definitely bent my morals.

0

I think very few people have a well-defined moral code. They more or less have a sense of what's right and what's wrong, and sometimes choose to do wrong. I will tell you I personally haven't done anything that I felt was wrong.

I have a pretty simple system to decide when I'm not sure what to do and so far, it's 100% accurate. When I have a tough moral decision to make, I decide which one I want to do least, and that's my choice. So far it's 100% accurate. I've found that choosing what's right is usually more difficult than choosing what I want to do least.

1

Morality is something we use when convenient and toss aside when it aint.
Being 'good' ? Now yer talking relative concepts.
I've been called a dream come true to absolute evil, and everything in between.
What's good. Well, this coffee is.

I'll add that you can change. Plenty of folks have a....shall we say.....pragmatic....past. Coming to terms with it can be difficult.
For me, accepting that like everyone else, I did what I did because I thought I had to, works.

3

I am a free agent and I live my life to enjoy my life. I have 4 gatekeepers to my moral and ethical life. I love ALL my brothers and sisters in my human family. I strive to always treat others as I would want to be treated. I strive to never do to others what I would not want done to me. I strive to never cause or do harm to anyone.

1

I am purposefully moral. I was raised atheist with a "do on to others" kind of morality. I did some shoplifting and some manipulating. I realized that I didn't want to live that way, not because I'd get caught, but because it is wrong. I had taken something from a former friend and I looked her up and confessed and gave it back. try to be honest and up front with people. I find that my attitude makes me a victim to people who manipulate. I'm getting better at identifying those people. The world would be a better place if we were all good to each other. We can all do our bit.

1

Interesting question. I also am a lifetime Atheist or strong Agnostic if asked. Moral code varies by culture and judgments of others reinforce ones moral views. Personally I try to treat people as I want to be treated. That gives me somewhat of a moral baseline. Sexually I throw all that out the window. Have always been active sexually, and with age I seem to be pushing that line harder. Not sure if I see it as amoral, hell I see it as normal.

3

I like the term coined here...."fluid morality". I think that's accurate. Life is fluid. Situations are fluid. I've lied to save the feelings of others...and to save my own ass when needed. Never felt guilty about any of it.
But I have empathy for those around me and treat them as I would be treated. With respect and honor.
I must say though...in regards to lying...the older I get the less I lie! I just lay that old truth out there like a boss...lol. Deal with it! Fix your own feelings!

3

Everyone bends their morals. If they don't they are lyi thing about it or not open minded or inteligent enough to know that they do.

MsAl Level 8 May 17, 2018

Totally agree. We are all on hypocrites on varying levels.

First off, no I don't.

Explain exactly to me how you'd know what each person's moral code is to know that "everyone bends their morals"? This is another bullshit blanket statement that you can't possibly back up. Not everyone does what you do, because I know I don't, and that doesn't make me a liar, unintelligent, or close-minded.

I would however put money down that you bend your morals on a frequent basis and want to justify it by saying everyone else does it too. You know, the same thing that lots of shitty people say to justify their own guilt, and hey you've even got a few backers which is also unsurprising.

I think your personal justification is much more likely and common than you knowing the moral code and actions of every other person on Earth.

@mattersauce
I've never met a perfect person and wouldn't want to. All humans make mistakes and do things they regret. The better ones admit to it.

@MsAl Sticking to your morals doesn't make you a "perfect person". Far from it, but if you can't even stick to your own guide lines then you're not even trying. You're not better for admitting your moral code is irrelevant.

1

Morals are not something you work on because you want to feel better about yourself or be liked more.

2

I think you could say I'm "generally fair / moral" in a socially acceptable judeo-christian model of morality. But like you, I have no qualms about breaking or setting aside my moral code when it suits me. I've never been a thief (unless you count downloading movies) but why not lie, if it benefits me and harms no-one?

1

Tim Minchin talks about having a "relativist morality" that lets him "justify group sex while abhorring group prayer."
I held a well respected position for many years and that position enabled many things that I disapprove of. I did rebel often, was reprimanded and had my wrist slapped often, and I hit back often. These days I refuse to enable things that I believe wrong. I do not cheat on my taxes, I simply refuse to realise my earning potential and choose to be employed below my ability.

I love Tim Minchin. I wish there were more videos on youtube of his commentary--most of them are just his songs (hilarious and poignant enough) but I'd really like a book full of Minchin-isms.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:83305
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.