Can the society please stop associating shame with suicide?
Not everyone has a good life or a chance to make it better.
We all die in the end. So what's the big deal about choosing when you leave?
There are many people inside the circles of suicidal patients. ....all in the health and law enforcement communities take it very personal when self destructive people bleed or do violence on their watch. ...disposing of cadavers is not the only waste of public dollars there are statutory autopsies grief struck next of kin and neighbors who are scared of such violence. ...until death with dignity is legalized suicide patients are committing crimes not just shameful behavior. ....without painful or terminal illness, suicide is a cowardly act against our human duty to our species and planet. ...better jobs and better circumstances should be pursued than quiting our obligations to community
I will not dispute the logic in your statement.
I will, however, point out that it is most often, a permanent solution to what is usually
a temporary situation.
Not seeing "a chance to make it better" is often short-sighted, and borne of emotional
distress and hopelessness.
Decisions made under duress are not usually rational ones.
I will NEVER go into a nursing home/care facility. If I get disabled/old - can't take care of myself, I have the right to hasten my demise. My beloved grandmother was flat on her back in a nursing home for the last three years of her life. Her mind was gone. Her body was almost gone. But the social customs dictate that someone MUST be kept technically alive. I have a Living Will and DNR. I deserve the right to decide.
A mentally stable person CAN commit suicide. I understand most people here are from developed nations and have little idea about what goes on with the unlucky folks born into Africa and middle East. But, I for one, will rather gas myself with CO and doze off to death than let some religious extremist stone me to death.
So yes, there are situations when suicide is the only logical solution.
I feel and have always believed that living in a choice. I did not choose, to be born, my family, my looks, by intelligence, my chemistry, my country, social standing. If one decides to check out early the least we can do is support their decision and help them check out. That said if it is a 13 or 23 year old who is devastated over a lover leaving them perhaps there should be a timeout period. But someone who suffers for terminal depression for 40 years or is dying from a disease and want to die in dignity NO ONE has the right to say no.
First off, I remember feeling similar to your statements. In fact I felt like that from about age 8 or 9. I really did. I used to barter in my childhood prayers at night, hoping to die. I was in counseling by age 21 after a friend/coworker knew I tried committing suicide by ingesting a lot of pills. He literally took me with him to a picnic in a park and told others not to let me sleep, I had to walk while being propped up by two adults on either side. I think eventually I threw up but it saved me and it began years of on and off therapy and chronic paranoia about being gay.
Yes my life was saved even though it sucked to be me. I lived in that friends attic, slept on a floor, had to heat large kettles of water on a stove to carry over to a bathtub in the middle of the room with no door, walls or privacy but it was a better choice for freedom and independence than being with my parents, in particular my father. It wasn’t easy. I worked, enrolled in college, and more counseling. Eventually I dropped out but I kept working, running, hiding and struggling but I always put on a good front.
It took me 14 years to come out about my sexuality and an AIDS diagnosis but I was in a stable relationship ( or so I thought) but I never quite found the courage to take my life. Thankfully too. I went on with my internalized struggles, on and off counseling and eventually school very late in life. I was always caring for someone near death or end of natural life. A great counselor recognized my compassion and humanity for others and encouraged me to become a social worker. I did and I loved it so I went on for my masters and at age 51, I became a licensed therapist. I learned so much but mostly my hopelessness melted away. I recognized how strong I am and how much I enjoyed listening to others struggling and I could identify with them. I just somehow knew I was meant to be here. I’ve watched 7 people die, was a caregiver and 2 were partners but I can’t say I regret any of it. I was also sexually abused as a child but I have overcome everything and I am still standing. I don’t have any clear answer for you but I believe you are actually hoping for a lifeline. I hope you get it and will hold on. Problems are temporary, new ones come along. Suicide is permanent and it has so many unintended effects and leaves a trail of pain you cannot ever know. So while life can be a chronic struggle, it has its moments. I’m sorry you’re in pain but I do thank you for allowing us all here to hear you rather than hold yourself in pain and despair. Just take it all an hour at a time and reach out to a professional. You eventually will find the right person who can truly understand you and help. I hope you will take my advice. I rarely give it but I wanna see you make it. Even if you cannot see what it looks like, you’re gonna get there.
Thanks for sharing and keep us posted.
I think we've been socialized to think negatively about death, and especially suicide. While I support assisted suicide, I have to be cautious about other types of suicide. There's a tremendous difference between choosing to end one's life due to illness or injury is different than choosing to end one's life due to other things generally has more to do with mental health, and I would question a suicide choice. Choosing suicide due to a brain tumor or such is different than killing oneself because of a relationship breakup or family problems. Does that make sense?
Whichever the case, I don't think suicide under any condition should be shamed. We need to be empathetic to those who feel suicidal due to life circumstances. Mental health issues are so crucial in this country.
This discussion does a good job of covering a lot of the arguments for and against suicide that have been presented going all he way back to the ancient Greeks. Beyond the religious reasons are the arguments that delineate a person's responsibilities to society and to their own survivors.
I would argue that in most cases, especially teenagers, a suicide attempt or suicidal gesture is really a cry for help. Most states have the mechanism of putting such a person on a 72 hour hold in a hospital.
I do believe, however, that there are situations where suicide is acceptable. My father was dying of cancer and decided he didn't want to live through the inevitable pain associated with his particular type of cancer. It was sad that he couldn't find a way that didn't involve bystanders while allowing him to die quickly. He chose to stop eating and drinking. Th research shows that this is not a painful way to die as within 24 hours the hunger goes away. It took longer than he had hoped, and the hospice people abandoned my mother (their national organization believes that if necessary you should sedate a person until they die 'naturally' if there's any indication of suicidal ideation), Rather than cowardice, I think it took incredible courage to make the decision every day to continue on his intended course.
We're all LIVID here because they've just invalidated our ''Death With Dignity" laws (VOTED by the citizens of California, by the way.) How the damned religious fanatics can win yet ANOTHER victory in running peoples' lives is beyond me. Here's ANOTHER issue we'll have to overturn, once the GOP is gone.
As long as you've thought it through, do it in a considerate manner and don't botch it I don't have a problem.
Thought it through is an obvious one, not something to be done on the spur of the moment.
Considerate manner may seem odd but I have know people who have given due to thought to the aftermath and others who used it to punish people. The most considerate was without immediate family and made sure all the paperwork was taken care of, that the police would be the ones to find them, all the rest of it. The worst was a man who tied his wife to a chair and forced her to watch him hang himself.
Don't botch it is also possibly less obvious, but don't injure other people in the process, either physically or psychologically, so no jumping in front of trains or any other public spectacle and don't make such a mess of it that somebody else has to care for you for the rest of your life.
I have no problem with the moral aspect but get the practical aspects right.
At the end of the day, I am pro-choice so it’s not for me or anyone to say what is right or wrong but I can personally say I am glad I stuck around. My life is far from perfect. In fact it’s very hard for many reasons but as someone who professionally counseled people, my training and experience tell me to try being proactively responsive to maintaining life. So I actually respect everyone who has shared opinions and stories. I really continue to grow, learn and try being open to everything. You’re the expert in your own life. I will also say I have experiences and know clients who are glad they stayed alive even if life’s been at times even harder. So I respect wherever you are at.
There is the morality issue put forth by religion, but according to the study on suicide by Durkheim, the more rigid a persons religion the more likely they are to attempt suicide (up to slightly more than three times the national average).
To me, suicide in most cases is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. People kind of paint themselves psychologically into a corner where they cut off making certain decisions, primary to please others. Rather than upset others, by making choices that woudl displease loved ones or the religious group they belong to, they choose to end their life.
For most people, if they make a choice tha tupsets someone they don't want to disappoint, it will give them a way out of their problems, or an alternate solution to the permanent one of suicide.
If you look at every person who survived a suicide attempt by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, you will find that everyone who survived changed their mind between jumping and hitting the water. All of a sudden making choices tht upset others did not seem so harrowing or that bad.
I do believe for persons who have chronic illness that choosing suicide to avoid livign out a life that could only be filled with suffering is a legitimate solution to their problems. My mother died of "bird fancier's disease", which was a terrible way to die. It is slowly suffocating over a period of many years. The last eight to ten years of her life, she only suffered. She was just incapable of enjoying any part of her life. Because of her religious beliefs, she lived out her life until she finally totally suffocated. I wish her suffering ended sooner.
The ONLY feeling I have ever had regarding suicide in and of it's self, is the impotent feelings of those left behind...I have had suicides among my friends, and not to begrudge them, but wanted to dig the up and kick there ass, for giving surrendering....
It used to be very important to have as many members of the tribe live to the age of procreation, and contribute, to that, and the survival of the tribe. Hence the prohibition.
With 7+ billion on the planet now, obviously this is no longer a justification for much of anything.
I think implementing the "tradition" of saving a person's life means the saver is therefore responsible for the saved would quickly change all the stupidity of trying to stop suiciders.
Life is a motherfucker, huh! What are you looking for, permission to off yourself? I can't do that but if you want a long distance friend, I can listen. I'm 70 and Vietnam era vet. Suppose I have PTSD, fuck it, kid, you can't depend on anyone but you. People who look for fairness in this world are always disappointed. Lemme know.
I am sure that there are circumstances in which I have not had to deal with in my life that may have an argument for justified suicide. A painful terminal illness for example. I’m not sure how many of you have actually experienced the feeling of truly wanting to commit the act. I’m not talking about suicidal ideation but actually planning out the act. For a brief moment you see clarity. Suicide doesn’t remove the pain, it just a passing it on to someone else. There are nearly 50,000 deaths in the United States alone each year due to suicide and the vast majority are from mental illness. If you don’t like your circumstances then change them. I read the other posts below. Choosing suicide to avoid a death by religious extremist accomplishes their goal. I would rather go down fighting. Be the architect of your own destiny. Whether we believe in a God or not we are here and there is meaning for each one. Your life is always worth living.
I think it’s a good thing for society to discourage suicide, but I would imagine that if you’re in a bad enough condition to actually go through with it, it being against the law won’t stop you.
A mentally stable person would never commit suicide so I would suggest that psychological treatment could help them.