@altschmerz Here in Oklahoma it really makes not difference who you vote for if you are against Trump because this is one of the reddest of the red states and he will probably take 70% of the vote and Pence will take 58%. I will vote anyway and work to get others to vote though because our urban area elected Kendra Horn, a middle of the road voting Democrat even though I know she is personally very liberal. Both Kendra and myself are pragmatic and know the number of Democrats in the house matter a great deal in this crazy time.

That said I think in some of the states in the NE every vote counts and a third party vote or a stay at home voter because they don't like either party will definitely re elect Trump.I think that is what happened last time. I am pro choice but the loss of the Supreme Court for generations means a lot more than losing access to abortion. Abortion is just their cattle call, they will also be able to institutionalize monopolies, and even though they claim to be for states rights, they will take care of their corporate sponsors by doing away with state laws that protect both the environment and workers if they continue to have control of the courts. Of course they have also appointed more federal judges at lower levels than any Democratic president was ever able to do because McConnell stopped all those efforts. Yes the parties are very much alike but I do not think we would have the same justice system we have now if evil Hillary or bland Gore had won. I believe in accomplishing what is possible. I do my best to never accept the worst in demand for the perfect. Is my age showing? Yes, I think living and watching politics for 55 years has definitely softened my expectations and goals.

@altschmerz Guilty as charged. I will read them now.

@altschmerz I read the article which to a certain extinct confirmed my belief that the third party candidate often ends up taking away votes from the party they are most like therefore electing the party they dislike the most.

I would love to see the emergence of new parties. I believe for that to be successful, they need to start at the city level and show us what they can do. When that happens, they will be much more likely to garner enough votes at the next higher level. Starting at the presidential level is ludicrous to me. I thought for years the parliamentary system had some advantages over our system until I saw Boris get elected. Nothings perfect and demanding perfection is self defeating in politics and most aspects of life. I do think we should set our goals toward perfection but the demanding part is what kills us.

@Bobby9 I was referring to a vote for Pence as Presidential candidate not VP.

@altschmerz NO not the green party, and why do they think they can just throw up a presidential candidate without paying their dues? you grow as a party. you govern. you develop an experienced party and when you put up a presidential candidate you have candidates to back him/her up in congress and in state houses and in municipalities. and you don't present a russian asset as your best candidate, either.

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@altschmerz No. But I didn't read the first one either. I answered the question. It was not the first time I had heard it thought about that question.

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@altschmerz i've heard them all. i really have. i am tired of the subject; it's been beaten to death. there comes a point where one says "enough." i am past that point.

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