Agnostic.com
1 1

Trotsky thought that certain so called left forces were acting the way they were and taking certain positions because they were in their infancy and their movement was immature. It was Lenin who pointed out and taught Trotsky that there's class forces behind every political party at play, this is what only the SEP/ICFI argues as we have learned the political lessons off these giants of the 20th century:
Perth Trotskyists
January 10, 2016 ·
The Three Sources and Three Component Parts of Marxism, Lenin 1913

"People always have been the foolish victims of deception and self-deception in politics, and they always will be until they have learnt to seek out the interests of some class or other behind all moral, religious, political and social phrases, declarations and promises. Champions of reforms and improvements will always be fooled by the defenders of the old order until they realise that every old institution, how ever barbarous and rotten it may appear to be, is kept going by the forces of certain ruling classes. And there is only one way of smashing the resistance of those classes, and that is to find, in the very society which surrounds us, the forces which can—and, owing to their social position, must—constitute the power capable of sweeping away the old and creating the new, and to enlighten and organise those forces for the struggle."

Ian-Duggan 7 Jan 16
Share
You must be a member of this group before commenting. Join Group

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

1 comment

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

I get the impression from little bits I've read that Trotsky was more of an idealist while Lenin was more pragmatic. Everybody knows what happened next - execution after execution. And not confined at all to the rich and politically powerful. Lenin seems to be saying here that education will be the permanent solution to the working classes being oppressed. Me, I've lost faith in education. It was supposed to help us live peacefully together but it seems to be just a tool in the hands of the different political factions. For the moment, I think social democracy is the best of a bad lot.

brentan Level 8 Jan 16, 2020

Brentan the social democrats have moved so far to the right nothing separates them from right wing parties, the labour party in Ireland tried to charge us for water and took medical cards off down syndrome children, read the passage again this is what Lenin meant when he was talking about class forces behind politics. Social democrats are ruled by the ruling class and have been since they voted for war credits before ww1. Education is only fair and good in its entirety if it is for the benefit of all humanity and it is organized in an egalitarian and with understanding societal empathy, education for the greater good of humanity, hence education under socialism. Lenin and Trotsky were both Marxist materialists and in no way idealists.

@OwlInASack Why did they vote with their own governments to go to war instead of working on liberating the working class in ww1 then? and were you aware they used to be in the socialist international the 2nd international with Trotsky and Lenin who both opposed war?

@OwlInASack [wsws.org] UK: Pro-Corbyn councillors sabotage fight against Labour’s social cleansing, and btw we've loads of articles on labour and everyone else calling themselves left

@Bobby9 I certainly would like education for all. I would like a liberal education in particular, where the best ideas from the past are used in the formation of the person. Instead, all I see is data intake and ideology.

Recent Visitors 25

Photos 839 More

Posted by johnnyrobishFederal Judge Denies NRA Scheme to Declare Bankruptcy A federal judge has denied an effort by the National Rifle Association (NRA) to file for bankruptcy protection, ruling that the gun-rights ...

Posted by johnnyrobishTrump Calls Kentucky Derby Winning Horse Medina Spirit a Junkie After it was announced that Kentucky Derby winner Medina Spirit failed a drug test after the race, former President Donald Trump took...

Posted by OldGoat43 IT ISN'T JUST THE BEACH FRONT PROPERTY ANYMORE... How do we cope with the new world order of the super rich owning our planet?

Posted by phxbillceeDeSantis Signs Law Banning Democracy [politicalgarbagechute.com] (Warning: Satire (sorta) ahead)

Posted by johnnyrobishArizona Republicans Spinning Tale of 40,000 Fake Bamboo Ballots From Asia Arizona Republican “auditors” participating in a recount of the 2020 election in a last-ditch attempt to prove Donald ...

Posted by johnnyrobishFox News Announces the New Trump Communications Platform As promised, former President Donald J.

Posted by nicestuffThe Trolley Problem

Posted by johnnyrobishGOP Labels Biden’s Daycare, Education, and Employee Leave - Lefty Social Engineering Just days after President Biden announced his $1.

Posted by johnnyrobishFBI Warned Giuliani He was Target of a Russian Influence Operation It’s being reported that the FBI warned Rudy Giuliani, Sen.

Posted by AmmaRE007SevenFallenFeathers The groundbreaking and multiple award-winning national bestseller work about systemic racism, education, the failure of the policing and justice systems, and Indigenous rights ...

Posted by johnnyrobishUSDA Calls Republican Claims of Biden Planning Meat Ban a Fabrication: The U.

Posted by johnnyrobishEU Says Vaccinated Americans Can Visit Europe This Summer European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen told the NY Times that Americans who have been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, will ...

Posted by johnnyrobishTrump May Soon Be Relocating to New Jersey Insiders say that former President Donald Trump and his team, may soon be “temporarily” relocating from his Palm Beach Mar-A-Lago resort - to his golf...

Posted by LorajayI've read that several states are making it unlawful to video the police.

Posted by HankHunter13BLACK LIVES MATTER George Floyd Breyonna Taylor (Heather Heyer) MichaelBrown Eric Garner Tamir Rice

Posted by HankHunter13BLACK LIVES MATTER George Floyd Breyonna Taylor (Heather Heyer) MichaelBrown Eric Garner Tamir Rice

  • Top tags#DonaldTrump #politics #video #satire #world #hell #republicans #socialist #money #god #government #vote #BernieSanders #USA #democrats #laws #hope #democratic #media #religion #truth #WhiteHouse #humor #religious #friends #reason #capitalism #kids #campaign #Police #fox #progressive #death #children #rights #policy #book #guns #federal #sex #military #society #earth #conspiracy #evidence #church #TheTruth #community #Christian #fear ...

    Members 1,434Top

    Moderator