Look up some historical maps. The eastern parts were parts of Russia that Lenin added. They were not part of Ukraine before 1919 and naturally were populated by Russians.

Similarly, Crimea is historically Russian but Khruschev gave it to Ukraine in 1954.

This is why Crimea and the Donbas revolted in 2014 after the US helped a coup that eliminated the rights of Russian speakers.

Yes, let's get all of the relevant information...

@Krish55 Crimea is prime real estate for southern Eastern Europe because of its access to the sea.

If we want to go back to the historic population and control of Crimea perhaps we should give it to Turkey. I feel the country should be controlled by the last country that gained control without using aggression and that would be Ukraine.

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

@Lorajay
The extensive Russian history in Crimea eplains why the population there is overwhelmingly Russian. As in Eastern Ukraine, this population objected when Ukranian Nazis overthrew the legitimately elected government in 2014 because the US wanted Ukriane in NATO.

This new illegitimate governemnt of Ukriane rightfully lost control of Crimea. If there had been no 2014 coup, Crimea would still be Ukranian.

@Krish55 I'm sure we just need to agree to disagree. I've never claimed that Ukraine is perfect. I am claiming that Russia is pushing false propaganda about Ukraine in order to justify their war of aggression against a country that embodies many mineral and agricultural treasures as well as seaports. Claiming that Ukraine is full of Nazis is like saying that America is ruled by Libertarians. I'm pretty sure that example would be pretty close in percentages of the total population of each country.

I respect this website. [factcheck.org]

@Lorajay
I never said Ukraine is full of Nazis. Neither is America. But as in America they are well armed and well trained. We saw what happened here on January 6th. The Ukrainian far right is far more powerful than ours.

Ukraine is the only country in the world that has dedicated Nazi and far right military units. The only country! And they intimidate the civilian politicians, including Zelenski.

Since the war began, Western media has been defensive towards Ukraine, often obscuring the truth. This is because both democrats and republicans are united in promoting American imperialism. And our corporate media promotes this project.

You need to find an International non-Western fact check because this is an international issue involving the West on one side. Read what Noam Chomsky says about our corporate media promoting the government line when it comes to US imperialism.

Any efforts? Really?

So all countries invaded by the US have the right to commit terrorism against you, your family, and your friends? Remember, the article is about a civilian in Russia being murdered.

So you agree that you are now a legitimate target for a Syrian, Libyan, Iraqi, Afghan, and the people of a dozen plus countries invaded by the US? That is the precise logical consequence of your argument!

Or is it only white people who have the right to such terrorism? What exactly are you claiming in a progressive group?

@Krish55 soooo, you would just wring your hands & kowtow? I think they call that being a Quisling.....or collaborator......

@AnneWimsey I am not Ukrainian so I can hardly be a Quisling. Neither are the Russians speaking Ukrainians who resist the Nazi military that Ukraine sends out to suppress them.

@Krish55 huh, I thought we were talking about if my/Your country was being invaded.....you wanna keep shifting parameters, it is Not a discussion. Bu-bye.

@AnneWimsey
You are the one avoiding the question based on your supporting Ukrainian terrorism against Russian civilians:

• Is terrorism against you justified because the US has invaded other countries? *

Or is it only white people like Ukrainians who are allowed to engage in terrorism?

PS: I don't mind when racists say goodbye, including racist Karens...

@Krish55 ooohhh, stooping to unwarranted personal attacks....I wWIN!

@AnneWimsey
Personal attacks?

You have repeatedly called me a Quistling and Putin lover, including several months ago. I'm simply not going to ignore your name calling and racist double standard any more.

So Karen gets upset when her racist nature is pointed out? Karen doesn't like a taste of her own medicine?

Do you have a factual refutation?

@Krish55 Letsa face the facts. Ukraine did not initiate any military action gainst Russis, but was attacked by Russia simply becaus3e of Putin's imperialistic desires. It has also never attacked any civilian targets in Russis. Try those facts on for size. As a supposed history teahcr, I would expect you to be more truthful and objective. I was also once aq history teacher, and I taught facts and was not persuaded by demagoguc garbade.

@wordywalt The war started in 2014 with the coup that the US helped engineer. The new anti-Russian gov't revoked the rights of Russian-speakers who then revolted. Ukriane reneged on the MInsk accords to end that civil war. Just as the West reneged on its promise to the Gorbachev not to expand NATO.

Yes, let's get all the facts. Since you are also a teacher, let's listen to the academics, not the corporate press. Here is a top US poli sci professor:

@Krish55 Again false. Russia had to right to interfere with the interenal operations of an independent nation. Nothing whatsoever gave them the right.

@wordywalt What exactly did I say that you consider false?
And are you saying that this respected US professor is lying?

@wordywalt
Interference with the internal operation of a country? The US ambassador, Victoria Nuland, did that in 2014.

When the European Union tried to broker a solution to the problems unleashed by the the US engineered coup, she said "Fuck the EU." She then proceeded to make a list of prospective Ukrainian presidents who would be acceptable to the US. How is that for interference??!!

It is precisely US interference in the internal affairs of Ukraine that led to the war.

@Krish55 As a history teacher, you appear to be ignorant of Ukranian - Russian history. The problem did not start in 2014. It started when czarist forces invaded Ukraine and annexed the terrotiry to Ryussia without the consent of the Ukrainian people. It continued and got much worse in he 1920s, when the USSR tried to force collective fars on Ukranian farmers ( taking ownership of the farmers' land and taking control of all cros produced. When the Ukranians refused, Russia swwoped in, took the entire year's yield, leaving virtually nothing for the Ukranians. That resulted in the death by starvatio of millions of Ukranians.

During World War II, when German forces took over morst of Ukraine, moe than a few Ukranians attempted to exact ther angry revenge by joining German forces. Putin has tried to use that fact to exact his revenge and to regain the Russian empire by saing that many Urkanians were faxcists and then attsacking Ukraine.

Don't pick and choose what parts of history you want to cite ad what you want to ignore.

@wordywalt
OK, if you bring up Ukraine at the time of the Tsars, you need to note that it was much smaller than the current Ukraine. The latter is larger because the Russians added their territory to Ukraine after 1919.

The earlier independent Ukraine did not have the Eastern Donbas nor did it have Crimea. The latter are historically Russian areas that were added by the Russians to Ukraine after the two lands united.

Once again, let's get all of the relevant historical facts…

@Krish55 During the time when Ukrainewas under the domination of the USSR, the Russians brought many R7ssi9ans inty thUkraine as settlers much like Isreal built settlememnts on the West Bank -- direct attempt to Russianize it.

@wordywalt
That is Ukrainian propaganda. This propaganda is refuted by the known historical facts about the growth of Ukraine as a result of its union with Russia after 1919.

As I have pointed out before, those new areas added to Ukraine - Crimea and the Donbas - were Russian to begin with. They were never part of Ukraine before the USSR was created.

After the creation of the USSR, various Russian leaders added them to Ukraine. There was no need to bring Russians in. They were already ethnically Russian.

You speak of history but spout propaganda that contradicts history.

Do you have a factual refutation?