What is your opinion of Nicola Sturgeon’s call of yesterday, to Scottish MSPs , for Indyref2 by time of the Holyrood elections in 2021. This, she says, is to preserve devolution and to protect Scotland’s place in Europe.
Posted in @Macnostics too.
I met Alec Salmond in the CO OP last night stocking up with cakes... anyway.
As for wee Nicki - Referendums are a reserved matter for Westminster. What is missing in the Nationalist argument are social effects of separation from a union that began to happen when King James VI of Scotland became King James I of Britain, then the act of Union 1707. The FUBAR of trying to separate from the EU has in three years shown how just four decades of union is proving painful. Thus attempting to disengage over four centuries of integration is going to be far harder. History has shown in recent years the nationalistic conflicts that have arisen in places like the Balkans and ex-Soviet Union are a potential outcome.
Recent polls indicate a lack of appetite for more political conflicts. But the SNP cannot leave it alone. There may well be a fear in Nationalists that if they don't win a referendum soon, they could suddenly sink back to last century levels support wise.
With the current Conservative government, there is a real potential for them to overturn the Sewell convention permanently as they have done with the EU withdrawl bill. Theresa May is psychologically unable to 'listen' to the opinions of others and her probable replacements don't seem to understand 'England' doesn't have an Empire anymore.
As for myself, I would fully support a Federal Scotland (and Northern Ireland, Wales, England and London), but not Scotland as an independent nation state.
Last time round I had no skin in the game. I know from a few people in the oil industry north of the border that some of the Independence propaganda totally misrepresented the future of North Sea oil but beyond that I didn't really take much interest. I chuckled when the Independence campaign were attacked on the basis that Scotland might lose their place in the EU through independence and the reply came back that they might lose it by staying if the Brexit vote went the wrong way. No one I knew at the time took that counter argument seriously. However since the initial argument was a significant campaigning point and has now been reversed I see a strong argument to revisit the question. In the new context they might also have to consider if they have room for 48% of the rest of the UK.
Surgeon? I thought her name was far fishier, like her politics.
Seriously, if the UK remainers get a second referendum, then fair play, precedent, and logic all dictate Scotland shoild get a second independence referendum.
@Marionville I see it is now corrected! The grammar and spelling police may chalk up another victory!!!
I don't have strong feelings about Scottish independence except that I am in favour of any group which sees themselves as a nation being independent if a majority want to be. I thought her biggest problem at the moment was that there isn't a majority for independence. If she calls indyref 2 and loses, what then? That's how I fel about a second brexit referendum, too. If remainers manage to call a second vote and leave wins again, what are they going to do - call a third? When i was in politics, the leader of my group frequently reminded us that you don't ask a question in public unless you know what the answer is going to be!
I think she’s a very shrewd politician, whatever she is doing it will be well thought through.
The only reason indy failed was because we were told the only way to stay in the EU was to remain in UK. So, many were voting to stay in the EU, not the UK, that was just the price. of staying. Well now the prize might be lost so why would we still be paying the price. If we want the EU we have to ditch the UK and there will be no lies accepted.
@Savage Exactly! The Tory party renaged on the very thing that kept the Scots from voting to leave. I'll be sad to see you go but good luck!
@Paul_Clamberer I actually live in england, for my sins but if brexit happens I will be heading north. Then once Scotland rejoins the EU I'll be moving to France, following my young son, dragged off by his french mother over brexit.
Just putting Pressure on Mrs May. She does need it. Destroying the Union would be a big step
I don’t think you can lay that at Scotland’s door. I’d say Brexit lies fair and square as the catalyst for any break up.
Absolutely brilliant. If the UK brexits I'm immediatly aiming to move north and wait for my Scottish EU passport. After that I'm moving to France where my EX ran off with my young son due to brexit. Too late for us as she has a new fella but I will be close to my son, he will know his Dad.
Yes...I think it’s looking like the beginning of the end for the UK as we know it. Farage and Widdicombe are standing for election in this new Brexit party...the lunatics are back, and will soon be running the asylum....let me out!!
Hmmm... bit of a constitutional dilemma, as Westminster has to approve any referendum. As a bit of a soft southern leftie, I dread the thought of Scotland leaving and increasing the strength of the Tory gerrymander in England.
Screw their approval, Scotland will not take no as an answer. The only thing that kept Scotland in the UK was being told it was the only way to stay in the EU. So, we will not take no for an answer.
@Savage How dare they try to stop us! The Scots need to have the courage to leave this time, instead of wimping out like the last time. The idea that we need this bunch of cretins In Westminster to show us how to run our own county is unbelievable nonsense. We largely ran the British Empire and were the ones who pioneered and founded cities and territories through the world in the name of the British Crown.
@Savage you also host Trident, the North Sea refineries and two nuclear power stations. That might also make things interesting.
@MrBeelzeebubbles I know only two well about Trident. My old protest Bus is at Faslane camp and when you put your head out the sun roof you can see straight across the Loch to the subs. Scotland will be very glad to see the back of them. And the nuke power stations I'm very aware of. My father was electrical foreman when some twat wired a pump the wrong way round and started pumping radioactive waste into the sea instead of pumping seawater in. For 6 months, FFS before anyone noticed. The north coast by Dounrey is still radioactive over 50 years later.
@Savage the company I work for does the safety testing for the AGR's at Tourness and Hunterston. Also got some of the contracts for decommissioning Dounrey. It's going to take a long, careful, systematic and thorough process to clean up that site. And we ain't cheap.
@MrBeelzeebubbles Yeah, I know how bad Dounrey is, a dark stain on my family through my shit father. Stay safe and do a good job. And if no one else does, I'll appreciate it.
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Misspelling...should have read Sturgeon. Apologies for that! As they called out in Braveheart....”Freedom”!