homicide is something that happens to humans. human tissue and non viable cells are not Human(note the capitalization) dispite being human tissue.

False equivalency. Also, Bodily autonomy is so inviolable as to forbid the harvesting of organs to save lives without consent, because another life does not have more value then your ability to own your own self.

You have failed sir.

@dellik nice response, deilik.

'nature hasn't done such a bad job with our species...' man, silver, what a statement. Politics aside for the moment, I assume you're referring to anatomy and physiology? I have a lot of respect for Mother Nature but, our systems are not perfection. For instance, I don't have a single female friend that's had an easy time of every stage/transitioning with the womens reproductive system.
To place circumcision in the same category as female genital mutilation is a sign of ignorance. Female genital mutilation is generally the removal or mutilation of female genitalia to punish or prevent the woman from having sex or from enjoying it. Female genital mutilation is just that, may be committed by male or female family members and typically not completed surgically but rather out of acts of violence. Circumcision is ritualistic removal of the foreskin of the penis, generally done by someone who's trained. Loss of the foreskin doesn't diminish feeling or manhood in the cultures that do this. In addition, do you have any idea about excess fold on the body? I'm a nurse. The things that develop in folds can be pretty awesome...little creatures that live off the flesh. I don't know the history of circumcision but I'd imagine when the Egyptians and then the Jews and then some Arab groups began the practice, there were health reasons associated with it.

@dellik All I have 'failed' to do is communicate with you. Given the barriers evident by your response, I will continue to fail.

After you familiarize with a dictionary, learn basic biology and human physiology and acquire the ability to think functionally we have no 'common ground' upon which to compare perspectives.

@crazycurlz O.K. Meshg, As usual, the erroneous notions are flying like confetti and one can hardly answer all of them. As suggested to dellik, I urge you to try developing the ability to think functionally. It begins with 'seeing' functionally and given the mechanistic way 'knowledge' is presented the task is difficult. Most of what I comment is functionally rooted. Focus on and naming of means and mechanism do not refute function but merely distract from it.

I like the qualification you made of 'anatomy and physiology' because that is exactly what I meant. Our 'systems' (bodily) are systems within a hierarchy of systems; many of which are human (read male) contrived, designed and imposed. As products of systems that are secondary and in varying degrees pathogenic, that we don't function well on many physical, emotional and psychological levels should not be surprising.

Your attempts to 'educate' me about mechanistically differing means and names for the same functional phenomena were unnecessary. I fully understood what you presented and more, before the exercise. It doesn't change function in any other way than degrees.

It matters not why, to what degree of barbarity, what kind of religious notions contribute to it, who performs it; be they Ancient Egyptians or ancient anybodies; be they contemporary mohel's infecting infants with genital herpes; be they physicians in sterile hospital environments or ignorant Islamic extremists in squalid huts with sharpened spoons. Mutilation of the genitalia of children for religious or any other crazy notion is still genital mutilation.

I especially enjoyed the observation: "Loss of the foreskin doesn't diminish feeling or manhood in the cultures that do this." The humor I see in it (functionally) relates to the humor women find in males pontificating on how this or that practice in our 'culture' doesn't diminish femininity. That you are a nurse gives you no superior platform from which to propagate notions about things of questionable or arguable validity. I'm no stranger to science or life sciences and don't feel the need to air 'credentials'. They have little to do with whether something is so. But actual knowledge does. My daughter has been a nurse for 27 years and we have many stimulating discussions and without mutuality of knowledge they wouldn't even happen.

What I find to be 'pretty awesome' is presumptuousness. It brings to mind a favorite Neitche -ism...

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Music IS functionality. Instruments are mechanism.

@Silver1wun you are right, there is no common ground when you chose to accept fundamentally wrong information, and portray it as fact. Your failure to grasp basic biology and then blame shift is laughable at best, and should be humiliating, but I doubt you are self aware enough for that to be possible.

@dellik In basic biology one learms that there are differences between cells, "tissue", organs, systems and organisms.

Check any cell you like in an internally or extermally gestating infant, or for that matter, from a dying 90 year-old and the dna will confirm the source to have been an organism; in this case a human organism.

@Silver1wun thanks for proving my point, appreciate it =D

@crazycurlz your attempt to somehow make out that female circumcision is a "worse crime" than male circumcision is derisable. Have you got a foreskin? Have you experienced the degree of pleasure obtained with a sensitive foreskin compared to circumcised?
No. Nor do I see validation of such claim from authoritive sources.
Neither can I ever know and compare pre and post female circumcision pleasures. I know however that the sensitivity of the vagina, the G spot and the pelvic floor muscles are not affected.
You mention things breeding in body parts covered by flaps of skin. Yes there are wonderous things growing between the chest skin and underskin of women with oversized pendulous breasts. I don't hear you advocating that mastectomies be carried out on infant girls to ensure that this can never happen. The interesting reality is what is actually produced under the man's foreskin and what it is produced for. I can assure that in nearly 70 years of life the only problem that I have encountered has been recently and that was due to the medical profession and side effect of a drug prescribed by them that was claimed necessary.
As for health issues in ancient Arab and Jewish days I'm sure that lack of water and cleanliness allied to sexual satisfaction being safely derived from little boy's anuses probably did result in horrendous infection in the women also entered.

@dellik When you contribute something worthwhile please draw my attention to it. In the meantime please explain how someone who considers bullying abhorrent and "no tolerance for bullies" can say one word in defense of what is the greatest betrayal and act of bullying perpetrated on a man through being circumcised when most in need of protection?

@FrayedBear 1; I'll give you a dollar if you can show me anywhere I said anything in support of circumcision.
and 2; What on earth makes you think I give half a shit if you think my statements are 'worthwhile'

The bully here, is clearly the ancient inbreed that thinks his feelings are more important then bodily autonomy.

@FrayedBear and dear god, after reading your response to Crazycurls I see you are actually just a piece of shit racist, so I honestly don't give a single flying fuck what you think. Please wander off into the woods and die you fucking dinosaur.

@dellik you obviously understand english differently to me. I see that you are a god botherer inciting the word in your response. How do you draw this wonderfully "grasp at the last straw" ad hominem to prove your correctness?
I suspect that your response will keep me laughing for most of the day. Incidentally can you supply a photo or drawing of your "flying fuck" I'm sure that it will also create amusement.
Have you had counselling for your inherent and deep seated anger or ever considered that anger usually arises through your lack of understanding and knowledge?
?

@FrayedBear My experience is that anger management is not necessary when expectations and beliefs are managed. When people have a healthy, productive sexual aspect going on in their lives it is made most obvious by a state of repose, good cheer and congeniality. When it is in chaos, the opposite is the case. They are irritable, frustrated and lash-out at things that make them mildly uncomfortable. I saw it in nuns, as a child growing up under their 'care'... Women in our society are confronted with male over-reaching expectations and anger displayed when they are frustrated all the time.

A disposition towards being rude and abusive is also prevalent among males in sexually repressive cultures ruled by extremes of Islam, Christendom, Judaism, Hinduism and more. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why a person allegedly seeking friendship or closeness with females would display such a deeply rooted abusive attitude; especially in matters that relate to sexuality.

Most women, especially associated with this site, have 'been there and done that', unfortunately. If one has beliefs based on real understanding and expectations in close contact with reality, anger is a rare emotion.

One of my favorite observations of Dr. Reich, from clinical work:

"Irrationality and illusion are revealed by the intolerance and cruelty with which they are expressed. We observe that human thought systems show more tolerance as long as they adhere to reality. The more the thought process is removed from reality, the more intolerance and cruelty are needed to guarantee its continued existence." (1949)

I'd add to that something about immaturity if it wasn't so eloquently on display in the first place.

@FrayedBear Im sorry, you keep typing, but all I hear is 'im an ignorant inbreed'
Try again gramps. or dont, only one that cares what you have to say, is you.

@dellik Try having your eyes tested as you are reading not hearing or see a psychiatrist about your problem of mistaking sight for hearing. Perhaps like the man who thought that his wife was a hat you need a book title named after you. Sadly Dr Sacks is now dead. You are providing wonderful entertainment. Keep going young fellow. ?????

its' not like female genital mutilation. it's circumcision.

@crazycurlz it’s male genital mutilation.
Just because it’s the norm doesn’t make it ok

@crazycurlz unnecessary surgery is mutilation

@BagelPants and @Simon1 you can say it as much as you want to. Your alternative facts are just that. Hope you'll grow a little and reconsider your sources.

There is a limit on dildos in Texas?!?!?? ??

Thank you for your comment.

@crazycurlz and what is mutilation?

@crazycurlz I think @BagelPants and @Simon1 are in a more informed position than you since htey speak from personal experience. Never had a problem with my four boys. If it aint broke.....don't fix it. Besides this, anyone who think this doesn't hurt a newborn babe is out of their mind. Let your children decide for themselves about what surgery, piercings, tattoos they want when they are of age

@crazycurlz "its' not like female genital mutilation. it's circumcision."
If your parents cut off part of your ear or your nose it's mutilation, giving it a name does not change what it is. In todays society it is no different than what we do to dogs to give them the appearance we've grown accustom to.
Let the man decide what he wants cut off, not his parents.
And yes, it is exactly like female genital mutilation, i't intention was to keep the kids from masturbating.

And did you know that in Jewish tradition a Moyal, who is not a doctor, does the bird and uses his mouth the clean the wound, And I say wound because cutting of part of a penis is inflicting a wound. And many of these religious men have spread venereal disease to the babies by following this practice.

It is an archaic practice and doing it to babies is wrong.
And if you want to make the argument that it helps prevent sexually transmitted diseases, I don't think too many babies are fucking anyone yet. They have their whole life to cut off a piece of their penis for health reasons.

@ThomasLevi again, opinion. I am not arguing about STDs, haven't mentioned that. It's Mohel and not Moyal and where the hell you come up with your crap about cleaning the wound with his mouth is just disgusting alternative facts.

@crazycurlz OK TRump, here is your alternative fact - [abcnews.go.com]

Because obviously you have all the facts and are right about everything.
By the way, religion is disgusting and so is cutting off part of a babies penis, even if you think it's for their own good, because it's not.

@crazycurlz "Your alternative facts"

Welcome to Trumps Merica where reality can be one sided.

Well someone is right, and she just knows it! She's also here to inform the ignorant which is, apparantly, anyone who does not agree with her. She's most likely better informed on other subjects, too, but, then again, I'm probably ignorant anyway so, don't listen to me. Keep calm, and carry on!

And there I was taught that Texas did and had everything biggest and best?
LMAO ROFL

Well.............

@GoldenDoll ??

Did you get her ears pierced as a baby?

@Kassandra why?

@IamNobody why not? Is that a private matter? If you're not interested in having a discussion, that's fine. I just ask that you don't waste my time by commenting as this isn't FB and I am actually interested in the majority of the 93 comments on this post. TIA

@Kassandra the topic of discussion is circumcision. What does my daughters ears got to do with it? Anyhow, I can tell you this much.... At least what I remember when I used to change their dipers...none of them had a penis.

@IamNobody Did you never consider having their budding breasts cut off to ensure that they didn't get breast cancer?

@FrayedBear now that's really cute... Please allow me to make your day, I am laughing so hard that my belly aches !!!

@IamNobody I hope that your daughters never have breast cancer and so you will not have to rue the day.

@FrayedBear your logic is not very sound and that's not my problem. How do you digress from circumcision to ear piercing to mutilation of baby girls nipples to breast cancer and try to ping it all on me??? Sorry dude, try to find another victim somewhere else....

@IamNobody neither is any argument advocating circumcision - male or female.

@FrayedBear keep on going, I am done with you

That
I
V

It’s equivalent to female genital mutilation— we KNOW that’s barbaric and done to suppress sexual enjoyment, mostly done for purity/religious purposes... if you think full stop FGM is wrong, why is MGM not? They both are. I originally didn’t think much of it until I read up on it from a friend being diehard against it.

@ScientistV Oh come on - it's not equivalent to FGM! If it was, the whole penis would have to be cut off......

@GoldenDoll incorrect, FGM is region specific, from removal of the clitoris, the removal of the labia,or stitching the labia majora closed after removal of the clitoris, and as there are mishaps, there are botched MGM in which the head of the penis is entirely removed or even more of the penis, either way— if you think removing parts of a little girl’s sex organs is wrong you SHOULD feel the same about doing that to a little boy.

@ScientistV well of course I feel the same about little boys. And I know all about the different forms of FGM thanks, first hand. My stepdaughter was an FGM victim.

@GoldenDoll then how do you find it NOT parallel?

For bodily purity and religious ritual you take your kid and get this thing done... in some cases in highly unhygienic ways that can cause long term damage, in other areas by “experts” who can do worse by slipping— or is your point legality since in the US it’s legal to do it to boys but not girls? I’d give you THAT half-point but we WERE discussing the ethics thereof not legality.

@ScientistV Because full FGM includes cutting off the clitoris, which is equivalent to cutting off the WHOLE PENIS. Or do they do this to boys as well for 'bodily purity or religious ritual'? Maybe that's one I don't know about. And you know exactly where you can shove your half point.

@GoldenDoll “the entire clitoris” is actually inaccurate, because medical doctors barely grasp the full shape of it. They cut off the equivalent of the HEAD of the penis, but an uneducated layperson like yourself even WHEN you know a person who had it done can’t figure it out. You’re a pretentious cunt, lady.

@ScientistV lol. I have had discussion with this member before. I did not use personal epithets against her but had her block me as I was obviously disturbing her cognitive dissonance. Please pm me if she does the same to you and blocks you. My suspicion is that it is a guilt driven thing that results in many arguing against known fact in order to justify their past behaviour. I have found it interesting that the Australian psychologists have not commented on my hypothesis that much violence against women and elder abuse results from the damage of being betrayed when most vulnerable by the supposed "saints" in our lives our mothers authorising or failing to protect against mutilation.

@GoldenDoll FGM is not equivalent to cutting off the entire penis; it is, however, quite close to circimcision. See, circumcision was pushed by conservative individuals to lower the rates of teen pregnancy and fornication in general. When you remove the foreskin you greatly reduce the sensitivity of the penis. These same people intended to have the same done to the female clitoris, but they pushed this during the women’s rights movement, and as women were already in a battle to get many other rights, they managed to avoid instituting what was referred to as “female circumcision”

Your facts are all wrong. FGM has been around for thousands of years. The world does not revolve around America. Go educate yourself.

@GoldenDoll with all due respect “Doll” your level of closed mindedness and ignorance doesn’t belong on this site.

@CoastRiderBill bodily autonomy and discussion versus control of the dialog.

I don't understand what you disagree with if you don't argue with men...

@Kassandra the difference between argument to mean to debate or to come to force one’s opinions. While they can formulate their own opinions they don’t have a right over my body as I do not have a right over theirs, but as an intellectual conversation— it’s better to not bury your head in the sand.

@ScientistV okay, I can respect that opinion. Thanks!

Ping pong balls make an interesting addition when in a "storm" looking for a port! ?

@FrayedBear hey now, Pepsi cans and ping pong balls go together #TwisterMovieReferenceFTW

@ScientistV the #Hashtag isn't working. I googled the phrase and came up with pages and pages. It is a cold grey morning and I have 55 other alerts awaiting response so perhaps one will explain your cryptic reply.

@FrayedBear it was the 90s movie Twister. Cold grey mornings are easiest for scrolling comments.

@ScientistV Yes Google came up with the 1996 Twister but what was the significance of ping pong ball and P cans? Were they used to demonstrate the power of the twister's wind velocity? And now thinking on't how does this relate to penis augmentation? ?

@FrayedBear if you saw his truck you knew he’d considered the surgery.

@ScientistV I didn't but I it assume that it was about the size of a wheelbarrow and he was looking for reduction ... like women with over sized mammary glands? I had an acquaintance who seemingly cured hers by breast feeding 6 children over a fifteen year period, playing tennis and mainly living off 2 litres of wine consumed in one two hour sitting. She weighed about 8 stones.

Having you penis look like your fathers penis makes about as much sense and forcing your son to get the same haircut and wear the same cloths all his life. Except for the fact that hopefully the majority of people will not see both penises so really the "look" the same argument is pretty silly. I don't really remember seeing my fathers penis, I'm sure I have and I know he is circumcised but I don't know it from seeing it.

Well that's the most ridiculous reason I've heard so far. What if you son doesn't want to look the same as you???

@Storybook you have a penis?

@Storybook - do you have a penis?

@Storybook, @GoldenDoll - do you have a penis? And you have as much right to judge as a man has to judge a woman about her body?

@ThomasLevi - it was a conscious decision based upon my past medical history and that isn’t rediculous. The nice thing about choices and decisions and opinions - everyone has the right to make them.

@Storybook - I don’t get offended on social media, or towards to many things in the real world for that matter. I choose not to let people’s opinions offend me; only use it as input for decision making if I respect that individual and ask for their opinion on the matter.

@CalvinJoe Having a circumcision because an infection or even if you think it will prevent something is perfectly rational. Having one because you want your penis to look like your fathers I hope you can understand sound a bit weird.
Now most fathers will have their baby boys get circumcised for that reason but if he had decided at 5 or 6 to take you for a circumcision so your penis would look like his, that would be weird. IMO of course.

From what I understand a man will lose some feeling whilst a woman will lose all feeling .

huge difference.

@Hihi. It’s same as male vs rape it’s not the same thing. /s

As a woman, you would be unable to have an orgasm. With a man, removing foreskin does not remove the ability to have an orgasm. The sexual 'release' for men and women being so different is the reason for the terms to be different, i believe. I'm not a doctor, though.

there's so much ignorance in the comparison, I don't even know where to start. you do a real disservice to victims of femal genital mutilation in not recognizing the horror they go through: 1. it's not a procedure, there is no process to it, nothing to prevent infection or loss of life 2. generally it's considered an act of violence: a woman is suspected of or has perpetrated a cultural sex crime 3. it both mutilates and removes sensation and organs vital for function and enjoyment. my god, if you're going to make this kind of leap...know what your discussing.

@crazycurlz Some people might say that calling my son autistic would be doing a disservice to severely autistic people. There is a HUGE difference between him and someone who rocks back and forth completely dissociated with the world. But he is still autistic.

There is a history of doing this to boys with no anesthesia. Cutting is cutting.

@Hihi hmmm... autism is a spectrum. Not sure how that relates to this discussion.

@Simon1 not totally true Simon. She still has her G spot and pelvic floor muscles to say nothing of the skin between vagina entrance and anus together with her anus. I have trained women to have orgasm simply from having their nose licked. I have never attempted it with someone who has never experienced orgasm or suffers from the trauma of rape or female genital mutilation.

Oh, Kassandra, you are BAD!

seems you're catching on very well.

@Lukian @Gareth I don't mean to lower myself to that level, but I just want to make it clear if you're going to call out people, and you cannot just give your opinion once and stop forcing your opinions down others' throats - it will be noticed.

Kassandra, I wish you well on your adoption, all children deserve a loving home. When you open up a discussion on a hot topic like circumcision, that is what you should expect: discussion, even if it becomes heated.

Ha! So funny it is you are....!

@crazycurlz thank you for the well wishes. And I love heated discussions - that is not the issue here though. Most commenters were very pleasant in their conversation- even when they disagreed. No one else commented on MULTIPLE other comments trying to argue and shove their opinions down one another's throats. You do realize that NO ONE is going to listen to you or think you have any credibility when you do that right? It's just the wrong way to approach a debate. Look up some pointers, come back, and try again. You might have better luck and won't have to coerce people then.

@Kassandra I agree. Throwing out accusations of ignorance, bias and cloaked anti-semitism is not the way to go in this community. I don't need that in my daily feed and rather than get sucked into responding I will eventually block the person, as I've done in this case.

@Gareth great idea!

When and if I have a daughter she will do all piercings she wants by herself. We do not tattoo our kids why should I force her with a mark without her approval?

@Humanistheathen thanks! While I won't be making my final decision any time soon and at this moment this post is for my hypothetical children lol, I will do my best to make an update here if that day comes. As of right now, I am leaning towards not getting them circumcised. Thanks for the feedback!!

No, not as a baby, we let her decide when she was about 12/14 or there abouts. These should always be personal decisions. I got my daughter a tattoo for her 21st birthday, she now has about 30, but her body/her choice.

My wife did when our daughter was like 6 months old, didn't ask me of course but I don't suppose I would have rejected the idea.
Of course poking a tiny hole is a bit different than cutting something off.

@ThomasLevi not according to some natural practioners who see pircing as damaging to accupunture points particularly in the ear lobes.

@FrayedBear I knew I should have had her consult an acupuncturist first before having needles stuck into body parts

@ThomasLevi It's not the passage through the scrotum but ....! Hehehe

I love Penn and Teller...great comedians. Please don't tell me they are your reference for all things medical

@crazycurlz And what are your terms of reference for all things medical? As you seem to have some of it wrong....

@crazycurlz No. My references for ALL things medical are doctors and other medical professionals. Just like the ones Penn & Teller referenced in this (and all of the other) episodes.

@GoldenDoll no I don't have it wrong. I think you may be motivated by prejudice. There is no comparison between circumcision and female genital mutilation. And there is no way to convince you of that.

@crazycurlz You have no idea what you're talking about. My stepdaughter was an FGM victim. My son was circumcised by his nigerian father. Please don't talk to me about prejudice. You have your wires crossed

Thank you. I will check it out.

@crazycurlz @Kassandra Both mutilations. Both unnecessary. Both performed without the adult consent of the mutilated. Both cripple for life. Both result in psychological damage. Both reveal the sickness of the guardians authorizing the action.

It does damage the nerve endings it can lead to other problems whilst urinating. The myth about being be for hygiene is exactly that a myth . And last of all you have not got a penis I have I have first hand experience you are wrong !!!!

@Simon1 Excellent comment. There are so many commentators who think they are experts but who have, it seems, read lots but led very little lives.

@Simon1 this is such a moronic response. I don't think there's much to respond to.

@crazycurlz and there we have it straight to personal attacks as you so obviously are wrong !!!

@Simon1 when you say things like 'it does' what is your proof? Also, when your comment ends with 'you have not got a penis'...what in the hell do you call that? I take that as a personal attack. I'm not wrong. I know how to research.

And the evidence for your beliefs. You may as well argue the existance of god!

@Simon1 I rememeber researching this back in 1996 here in Australia. The only data that I could obtain at the time was that 2 in 6000 male circumcisions resulted in death - usually complications like uncontrollable bleeding, infections leading to death. Doctors in the UK sometime before 2000 I think helped produce a film which revealed not only the deformities arising (other than loss of foreskin) but the remarkable numbers. Needless to say in many cases the psychological damage was usually lifelong.
@curlylocks may claim nothing untoward happens, the last time that I looked about ten years ago mortality rates from hospitalisation in US hospitals had not decreased.

@Simon1, @crazycurlz I think that anyone who claims to know how the other gender person experiences physical stimulus is like the woman who knows how a man thinks by looking at his eyes. The eye tells nothing other than which ancestors genes prevailed to colour the iris and if jaundice or other illness is present.

@CoastRiderBill My ex-husband had our son circumcised - the baby got a shot of brandy, nothing else.

@CoastRiderBill And that was at the British High Commission Hospital in New Delhi - I remember they got an "expert" in to do it and the UK GP was all set up with his camera to take photos - bet my son would like to see those now!

@CoastRiderBill, @Storybook They said it was safer than an anaesthetic, which is probably true. He cried a lot.

@Storybook Yep.

You can call others ignorant all you like but when us men have the evidence in our very hands that it does do nerve damage , it does cause psychological damage and when unnecessary surgery is done on someone without permission it is abuse !! As for it protecting from urinary infections ive had them whilst younger so thats a lie . Protection from hiv you are barking mad !

I think that going around calling people you disagree with "ignorant" merely backfires on the author. I was circumcised, Fortunately no harm has come of it, but in general I'd liked to be asked before having someone take a knife to me. It's a pointless ritual, in spite of attempts to rationalise it. You're right in implying I have an agenda though - respect, reason and the rights of the individual. I'm guessing that your own agenda is that either you or people you are close to have imposed circumcision on their own babies and you are desperate to defend the practice for that reason. I can't think of why else you are being so rude to people on this subject.
[Edit] Reading your subsequent posts, I see this is indeed the case.

Those "very keen observers in ancient times" - oh yeah. The ones who invented religion to explain what they couldn't understand. And would probably have burned you & I at the stake for having an opinion which wasn't theirs. They'd be the same ones who decided the foreskin was an evolutionary mistake. I despair at your pseudo-logic. Go on, make up some more fairy stories for us please.

@GoldenDoll This is unsurprising. Both of you presented with credible sources continue to cling to your ignorance. Ignorance is simply the lack of knowledge. At least the two of you are consistent.

@crazycurlz Have you ever even seen a girl with her clitoris cut off? I have. Your ignorance is stupefying. Your 'knowledge' is non existent.

There's nothing aesthetically displeasing about an uncircumcised penis.

Hanging was also legal until recently in many countries. China and USA remain the leading employers of the death penalty. One probably for body parts, one probably for religious reasons.

Thank you for a calm & coherent response.

Liked your comment. I am female and my brother was circumcised. I could have written your comments, weighing out the pros and cons but I arrived at a different conclusion.

@crazycurlz Well, that is one of the reasons it is still so prevalent, assuming you are for it, people still see a value in it. Is that the different conclusions you came to?
I look at it more like the reasons people dock the tails or crop the ears of some dog breeds, at least in the US, it has become more an aesthetic issue.

@ThomasLevi I actually disagree but headed out and will have to comment another time.

@crazycurlz No time like the present.

On sexual pleasure. You unfortunately can never know because you have been deprived just as a clitoradectomy of a woman deprives her of the sensation of clitoral pleasure. There are no parental rights. All rights reside in the child.

@crazycurlz Often those of cast iron opinion are unable to accept that their belief is not in iron but crumbling sand.

But god the creator of the entire universe and perfect in every way had a little problem when it came to foreskins. Just couldn't quite get that right... oh and he needs our cash for the church roof too.

@Nardi Well if it was good enough for Jesus ....Luckily you can still go and see Jesus's foreskin, in many different places - I think there are over 20 Holy Prepuces which are claimed to be "the one". Fascinating.

@Nardi what bad dope have you been smoking?

A problem can arise from infection with thrush. There is now a one tablet solution that frequently overcomes the problem of foreskin tightening and loss of elasticity resulting in it trying to garrotte the head.

@FrayedBear lol just quoting hitchens on the subject sorry.

@Nardi I reckon 3 hours in the sin bin for that one! ... "agnostics don't have sin bins." "Oh spewy, go and mumble in the corner then" .... curmudgeonly shiny goes off grumbling stage right.

@Storybook Thanks I needed someone to laugh at my peni$... wink.

Puppet show? That’s freaking hilarious

Unfortunately I did not see the previous post, but I'm glad more people are actually questioning it and spreading their personal experiences.

Thanks for your 3 cents. Lol

Is your puppet one eyed or what?
Someone not long ago photoshopped one of our wannabe prime ministers to replace his crown and forehead with a penis. It was very well done, you couldn't see the seam but unfortunately he has not taken the hint and quit politics.

@FrayedBear google puppetery of the peni$. They are an act. You can find them in YouTube.

But not wish so much that they would actually have it done?

@Gareth Good question. I had a vasectomy, and hated it. It was painful and weird because I was awake and could watch. Felt the tugging and snipping. It was kind of horrifying. I can feel the lumps and it occasionally causes me pain to this day. If I wasn’t circumcised when I was a baby I definitely would not do it now. Not that it would be painful necessarily, as they claim it isn’t, but just thinking about it now doesn’t work for me. That’s why I am glad I had it done and probably the same reason one might wish they had it done early on.

I’m sure there are lots of disfigured people for instance, that would like to look differently, but choose not to go under the knife just for psychological fear alone, but not necessarily that it will be painful. So when it’s just a matter of cosmetics, you have to weigh out the pros and cons. Money may also be an issue.

@Gareth Yeah, I believe our health care covered circumcision here in Canada before, but now treats as a cosmetic surgery that you have to pay for yourself.

@nastynifty I am uncircumcised and I had a vasectomy. The latter was decidedly NOT painful. Perhaps your doctor wasn't up to much.
Most of Europe, except for areas with Jewish or Muslim communities, does not go in for circumcision. Perhaps a decent study should compare Europeans against Americans in this regard.

@Petter Apparently Canada doesn’t circumcise for free anymore and if you want it done it is around $300 Canadian dollars. I’m absolutely aware that a vasectomy isn’t supposed to hurt, but mine did and I know another person who went through a similar experience as me. To be fair, apparently my surgeon was known to be a bit of a butcher and was actually fired due to his record, but that means it isn’t always painless regardless of what they say..perhaps a good reason to get it done at birth if it’s to be done at all.

The studies quoted on that one site are all over 40 years old and not even done on a large scale . You only quote from this one site which is pro- circumcision which is cognitive dissonance at its finest !!!!

@Simon1 - I think I love you! Got her right in the short & crazycurlies.

Maybe we should remove our children's teeth, you know, to prevent future tooth decay, or the need for braces, or yellowing.

Reading through that again how the hell does someone die from not having the top of his dick cut off that's just made up rubbish. Also claiming it protects someone from hiv ridiculous an errect penis is exactly the same whether it's circumsised or not . Whatever Dr claims otherwise needs his license revoked !!!

@Simon1 He's a reputable doctor. You lack understanding about the differences between evidence-based research v opinion pieces.

@crazycurlz he may be a reputable Dr in cardiovascular work but that doesn't stop him misleading others in other fields

@Simon1 And @crazycurlz.
Here is what Morris's head of department at Sydney university had to say about the paper that you reference:
"Morris believes that there is "'overwhelming' evidence to support male circumcision," and that although he does not believe that all males should undergo the procedure, Morris feels it should be in the same category as immunization.[5] He has criticised the circumcision policy[6] of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians, which he says is "not evidence-based and should be retracted,"[7] however his comments were rejected by the RACP. Morris has criticized anti-circumcision activists for what he says is the "cult-like devotion" they exhibit to their cause.[8] Morris wrote the 1999 book In Favour of Circumcision; Basil Donovan, Director of the Sydney Sexual Health Centre and a Clinical Professor in the School of Public Health and Community Medicine at the same university at which Morris was employed, the University of Sydney, criticised the book as "dangerous" and "a serious disservice to parents."[9] Other experts are also forthright in their criticism of Morris over circumcision."

I agree. There's a huge double standard. It's also very perverted. Culture has no business interfering with people's genitals.

Yep, my Nigerian ex-husband had it done to our son, and his first child, a girl, had it done too.

@Storybook The son thing was ok - I was still crazy in love and thought the husband knew best. My son is now a strapping 6ft3in and none the worst for it I suppose - too late to worry about it now! But the stepdaughter's mutliation broke my heart, and I could never get over it. She died when she was 9 of sickle cell.

@GoldenDoll so sorry to hear of what your family has gone through.

I recently read that in fact the foreskin produces product that prevents hiv/aids infection. And as you you say the majority of problems arising are due to lack of hygiene.
The other aspect that used to cause horrendous problem was the garrotting of the penis through infection by candidiasis (thrush) causing the skin to lose its elasticity and start to shrink around the head in a tight band. Nowadays the one shot tablet gets rid of it in the blood and quickly returns everything to normal. Occassionally 2 are needed.

Frayed Bear, this is an opinion piece, not evidence-based.

@crazycurlz i literally have the evidence to back this up in my hands !!

@crazycurlz What evidence do you want? A dick pic?

@Simon1 lol.Well said Simon.

@crazycurlz did you read the researched link that I gave? There is no opinion in a question. You can verify the evidence by using google to read something other than religious dogma but perhaps cognitive dissonance prevents you?

Why are you "glad"? I'd love to hear your reasons.

@GoldenDoll

@Secretguy while I love Seinfeld, I don’t agree with body shaming

@Marcie1974 Wow. Sense of humor much?

@Secretguy I know how sensitive most guys are and size and the way their penis looks. The look of revolt on her face is a bit much.

Just remembered and must add that I did have my son circumcised, and this was 58 years ago, a decision I now greatly regret.

it started as a means to prevent infection, much as what is happening in Africa today. Then it became tradition.

@crazycurlz you keep refering to africa who also belive that condoms cause aids due to the misinformation given to them by the catnolics and now thy have the highest infection of aids !!!

@crazycurlz
Srry, it started with the Egyptians then the Hebrews. Unless you are talking about modern society, and yes that is the reason they propagate.

@Simon1 I think by now I am beginning to feel sorry for you.