Agnostic.com

96 7

So after reading some comments on an FB post, I became very curious. I hope to keep this post relatively mature as it is of a personal nature. I have a few different questions/comments to present...

  1. As someone who plans to adopt and potentially have her own, something I never realized I may need to consider is if I'll have a son circumcised. What is your opinion and why? Please don't be too graphic, I am a LADY?. Parents, I'm most interested in hearing how you made your decisions with your own sons.

  2. Do you think that majority of those that have been circumcised was due to religious reasons or just the assumed norm?

  3. I hate when women push their beliefs on this topic, while also ask men to stay out of decision-making when it comes to women's reproductive rights. Have your opinion, sure. Please don't ever argue against a Male on this topic though. Agree? Disagree?

Kassandra 6 June 29
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

96 comments (26 - 50)

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

3

I was. Not for religious reasons. I asked my dad about it once and he said it was a tradition in his family. I don't feel it has affected my life in any significant way but I wonder at the arrogance of taking a decision without consent that someone has to live with for the rest of their life. Effectively, it's genital mutilation. It also has a lot of negative repercussions in religion and politics. I wonder how many Jews died in the holocaust because they had been snipped and could be easily identified - or Muslims during Indian partition?
Your son can decide for himself when he reaches the age of reason.

Gareth Level 7 June 29, 2018

No, it is not mutilation. Lumping this in with female genital mutilation, an issue that really needs our energy and attention is just ignorance.

@crazycurlz Mutilation
Mutilation or maiming is cutting off or injury to a body part of a person so that the part of the body is permanently damaged, detached or disfigured. Wikipedia
You're the one who's lumping btw.

@crazycurlz Cognitive dissonance?

@crazycurlz Requires your Judeo/Xtian attention because of your hatred of Muslims and their faith?
In many countries female mutilation of the genitals is a criminal act. That equality did not prevail to result in the criminalisation of male circumcision is thanks to the lobbying of the Jews.

0

This says it well...

Seriously? A little about adam conover, wiki: '...describe himself as "the only member of the family without a Ph.D."[5] In 2000, he graduated from Shoreham-Wading River High School, where he first became interested in the performing arts.[6] He then attended Bard College, where, in 2002, he became an active member of the sketch comedy group Olde English.[7] In 2004,[8] he earned a Bachelor's degree in philosophy from Bard College.[3]'

@OroLee it sounded like she was going to say something attacking him, but then just mentioned his schooling. I'm confused. Why is his training important? He is part of a production and, independent of that, the validity of is argument seems intact. Why does information about him in particular have relevance?

4

I'm circumcised and while I don't have any particular problems against it myself I didn't have my son circumcised and I wouldn't recommend it for anything other than medical reasons because it isn't necessary!

Pete66 Level 6 June 29, 2018

Unfortunately you are not in a position to be able to tell the difference.
I'm very pleased however that you didn't cripple your son.

@FrayedBear well that's true but I certainly have never been disappointed with sex or noticed any negative effects. I don't feel "crippled" 😀

@Pete66 Ignorance is bliss. ?

7

Unless there is a medical necessity - there is no good reason to do this - if the male will have access to soap and water and learns general good hygiene. (Retracting the foreskin to wash).

This is done to male infants without any anesthesia.
Having part of the body removed for non-medical reasons doesn't make sense to me.

My sisters and I discussed this when my first nephew was born.
With the knowledge we had over 36 years ago - we could see it had been mostly a choice to "look like Dad". Or to follow a religious practice.

That has changed markedly - and we're swinging towards men not being circumcised now. (In the US). So even that old chestnut is no longer true.

Also if you wait for the child to make his own choice - he will get anesthesia. (as an adult).

It's completely barbaric and perverted.

The foreskin is attached until a certain maturity and therefore should not be retracted as it causes damage.

6

I think having an elective surgery to mutilate the genitals of baby boy's is wrong. There is no medical benefit to the surgery, only risks. I would also say that having an opinion on this topic is different than having an opinion on the reproductive rights of women because at this point the baby is already here and as a care giver, all opinions of the people who will be caring for this baby matter.

Mea Level 7 June 29, 2018

Awesome opinion on the reproductive rights. First time I heard this opinion and I see your point. Thank you.

On second thought, this is irreversible if we had circumcision done. So we are taking the right away from the baby boy who will grow up to be a Male. So while I agree that the two are very different and the care taker will ultimately have to make a decision one way or another. I guess my main concern are women who are not having to make that decision and decide to force their opinions on males.

@Kassandra, I'm all for bodily autonomy and I would say that it would be best to leave baby boys uncircumcised for that reason alone. If he wants to have it done later he can, if it is done now, his foreskin will never grow back.

1

I had it done at 5 or 6 due to infections in that area. If the father has it, the son should have it so they “look” the same.

I can't believe you said that. And twice. It's still ridiculous.

@GoldenDoll hahaha

5

I had my son circumcised because I never even thought of the issue. I thought that it was just what you did. That was 32 years ago. If I were to have a son now, and having heard arguments against it I wouldn't have it done.

That was reasoning also. The first time I saw an uncircumcised penis I actually said. "Eww, what's wrong with it?"

Totally killed the mood.

@PhoebeCat and I feel just the opposite. As in all things, it's okay to have differences.

@crazycurlz you're free to prefer circumcised penises (EDIT: among your own sex partners).

That doesn't mean you should encourage other parents to cut any part of their boys' penises off, without their consent, absent medical necessity.

5

My son is not circumcised. I do not see the point - cut skin off my kid? Why?

My husband would probably have won the argument if he really felt it was important. In our case, my kid had two surgeries after birth and was 40 days old before he left the hospital. They asked right before we were about to take him home if 'by the way' do we want to circumcise him. Um, no thanks. He's been through enough.

Hihi Level 6 June 29, 2018

It's perfectly fine to make decisions for yourself and your family. I can respect that. But, the leaps you make, comparing it to female genital mutilation, for instance, are inexcusable.

@crazycurlz I don't want to be demeaning, but you remind me of a Christian.

@Kassandra this is a pretty important topic and requires discussion even if it becomes heated. I understand that by calling me a 'Christian' you think you are offending me, but, I have many Christian friends I admire and respect.

1

@GoldenDoll, @Simon1, @BagelPants, @Hihi, @OroLee: By the way, the information that I've posted are not my arguments, I'm simply disseminating research carried out by others. I wanted knowledge, I did some research. It's not hard to do. The alternative is...ignorance.

Yawn.

Have you actually said who funded the research and for what purpose? Further more is it supported independently?
Attn: @GoldenDoll, @Simon1, @BagelPants, @Hihi, @OroLee

5

To crazycurls, WOW! a bit intense aren't you? You don't know me and you spouting off like that making questionable assumptions as if you are the supreme keeper of the book of knowledge. Your attitude is unworthy of a response

and yet, you responded...

@crazycurlz Actually telling someone that their comments are not worth responding to isn't a response so much as it is notification.

1

Here's what I find insulting. Comparing this to female genital mutilation shows a real lack of understanding of both: both intent and how it alters the physiology and anatomy. And, on a personal note, I made the decision to have my son circumcised and it's insulting to me that you all dare to call me abusive because of my decision, that's essentially the accusation here. I am happy with my decison and what's more, my son lives a healthy life (and is soon to be married to a wonderful young lady). The procedure was completed at the hospital by a medical team with anesthesia and not by a mohel 'licking his penis' (reading through the mythology here is both entertaining and appalling). Your level of ignorance (again, lack of knowledge) goes further: it is not just Jewish people that practice circumcision of the foreskin but Muslims, too and the practice goes far beyond both of these groups (you all know there are many more religions in the world than just 3, correct? Feel I have to start with the basics with this group...).
As I said in my original post: it's a personal choice and I wouldn't recommend it for older men. It very likely began for real medical reasons (any medical person that's worked with infection r/t folds can understand this) and in some regions of the world is still medically warranted, the site I posted, the Professor Emeritus feels strongly that it is medically viable and should be routine procedure and now is most often related to traditions.
I would guess that most of you, except BagelPants come from Christian traditions without circumcision. It's an easy leap to discount all things foreign. It's an easy leap to give circumcision the evil attributes that you all do. I'd feel ashamed to express misconceptions so freely expressed here without looking internally and considering my motivation. The reason Christian countries gave up covering the cost is because it's not part of their traditions and not considered medically necessary (but, again, as my 'google' dr pointed out, with sound evidence-based research to back him up, medically prudent). There's nothing more villainous than that: it is not considered child abuse.
This has been lovely. On occasion, I enjoy a good, heated debate. Thank you all for exposing the ugly misconceptions you have (and cling to) related to circumcision.
I look forward to being part of your discussion related to female genital mutilation. Do any of you care to talk about a real, known, well-documented type of abuse that is generally done by family members, without anesthesia and with the intent of mutilating body parts? Or do you prefer to stick with topics that only require conjecture and opinion?

Arrogant & ignorant. A winning combination...

"Here's what I find insulting. Comparing this to female genital mutilation "
Well @crazycurlz, I find it insulting that you don't understand that cutting off part of a babies body is mutilation. In fact I find it quite disturbing.

Of course I am one of those wackos that thinks cutting off the tails of animals and chopping off part of their ears to make them more aesthetically pleasing to humans is also barbaric.

But you are welcome to search google for all the confirmation you want and since that is all you are looking for I am sure you will find plenty of it.

But make no mistake, cutting off part of a babies penis is mutilation and in the United States as in most places in the world there is 100% zero need for it and I can't think of a place on earth that there is a need for it as our species did without it just fine until the old testament god came along.

The timing and intent may be different than fgm, but it’s still chopping off body parts, without consent.

4

To anyone who thinks there is a difference between mail and female "circumcision".

Cut that clitoris because if your mom couldn't enjoy sex then why should you.

It's like cutting off the penis foreskin so the boy's penis looks like his dads because apparently that shits important to god but in this day and age there is no reason to do it to a baby.

Religious genital mutilation, because god perfectly created you.

And if nobody is circumcised then no one with think it's weird that your not.

Just say no to arbitrary chopping up children's body parts just because it's tradition.

Fitra ?!

@Punkrockgirl77 Agreed, but while the purpose, timing and intent may be different they are still the same thing, they are both still the arbitrary chopping up children's body parts just because it's tradition.

3

my first was and second wasn't.i didn't know better, the first time. There is no medical reason for doing it.

yes, historically, there likely was a medical reason for doing it and now some cultures do it ritualistically.

@crazycurlz Evidence did not exist then nor does it now.

9

Several tribal and religious (is there a difference?) groups have engaged in various forms of genital mutilation, both male and female. Circumcision is just one of them and it has been practiced in several different areas.

One of the arguments that has been used to try to justify circumcision is hygiene. In some regions/climes it may have been marginally justified, but we have learned so much about hygiene that the argument no longer holds any weight.

I would say that in these days circumcision is not necessary for any reason. I was circumcised, but my son is not nor are any of my grandsons. It is your decision, of course, but I would recommend against it.

Thanks for a considered response. Very refreshing after a lot of other angry & entitled replies.

@GoldenDoll , very nice and refreshing reply to you as well. Thanks to all who responded decently.

15

I feel quit strongly about this one,.... for numerous reasons, but firstly I want to say that rather like evolution & whether or not the earth is flat,.... science has spoken firmly on this one. The research has been done, the evidence is in and it is unambiguously nonsense. It is nonsense that has known & quantifiable risks and side affects attributed to it. So for that reason alone, don’t do it.

But for me, this is the biggie. It’s not your body, so the rights that you have over your son’s body are not infinite. You’re probably unlikely to tattoo your baby, or pierce it’s belly button, because you know that in doing so you infringe your child’s right to choose when it’s old enough. Same with circumcision,..... only far more so, because many ‘growdups’ DO actually choose to get a tattoo,.... whereas I’m prepared to bet that the number of 25 year olds feeling the urge to pay someone to scalpel off their foreskin is,..... small!!

Male genital mutilation (let’s call it what it is), is nothing more than a religious, tribal throwback, and I dissagree with several of the other well informed commentors, in that this is not in fact ‘your choice’. It is your son’s choice when he is old enough to do so.

Thank you for this comment

@Kassandra you’re very welcome. Thanks for the opportunity to rant! 🙂 x

2

I would say if your are going to do that, do it when the child is born. I am, and basically thats all i know, i don't know the other side, and ive always been fine with it, and i don't beileve at all the procedure hurts anything, ive never had any problems down there. ,hope this was helpful

Not.

@GoldenDoll if you have something to add besides Not ,please say so lols

2

I thought about getting myself circumcised but then reseached about this issue on google and then came to know it is best kept as it is. As getting circumcision decreases feeling during sex, something I would not (or any other male) want at all.

I'm not so sure. I've never felt short-changed on enjoyment of sex, and in fact, if I'd found it even more pleasurable I'm not sure that it would have been more satisfying for my partner.

@Gareth ignorance is bliss ... Or cognitive dissonance?

2

Not being a man, I asked my husband, and son's father, what he would do. As he had seen a urologist previously and they had a decent rapport, he called the doc and asked him if there was a medical reason for or against. The doctor said no, not unless there was a family history of issues in that area (no pun intended). He did mention the common argument of "looking like Daddy" and that there are some religious reasons. Of course, he added that if there are problems when he gets older, it would be much more unpleasant to have to do it at that point. (spoken from the point of a Dr) Not knowing many men who were uncircumcised 35 years ago, my husband decided to to have the procedure done.

The things is.. it would not be more unpleasant as an adult.. an adult would just be able to tell you how unpleasant it was with more gusto and panache.

@KC_TheOne giving birth is unpleasant as well. As is any surgery. I think they’d survive.

1

Genital mutilation is barbaric.

It was done for religious reasons initially and then done as an anti-masturbation measure later, and now done out of tradition or aesthetics... sick fuckers...

People can have whatever opinions that they want regardless of gender. As long as we don't deny the facts, I'm comfortable with a woman having her opinion on the matter. I would encourage women to listen though as there are issues that are particular to men involved, but don't feel like you can't say what you think. That's how we learn and question our assumptions.

agreed!...it dampens the sexual experience, period...that was their goal...and hell, some of us don't have an inch or two to just throw away! ha

@IamBane I relate too well to what was just typed, sir!

1

My first husband was uncircumcised. After marriage he did not even bathe as often as I would like. I had frequent yeast infections. My second husband was not circumcised. We were married for 38 years and I never had a yeast infection. He bathed often and kept himself clean. I had my son circumcised because I was told it was easier for a circumcised person to be clean. We talk frankly and he does not resent me for it.

Interesting first hand testimony! Thanks!

4

I am not circumcised and I have not had any infection or hygiene issue whatsoever. I come from a culture where almost every one is uncircumcised and no one one I know has had any health issue because of that, at least not that I know of. I have read that in gay men being circumcised reduces your chance of getting stds. Let your son make that choice when he is ready.

I read the post again and realized its for parents,but I am not one. I am still going to leave the comment as my thoughts are shared by a billion or so in my country!

6

I made the decision to not circumcise my son for a couple of reasons. First, after extensive research and consultations with multiple physicians (through my local children's hospital) I deemed it medically unnecessary. Second, I choose to raise my children to explore what they believe is true to them, not just follow my beliefs (on religion). When they ask me questions like "do you believe in God...do you believe in evolution, etc" my only answer to them is "what do YOU believe? And why do you believe that? I don't want them to grow up to just regurgitate my beliefs and thoughts. And rarely, if ever, have I shared my beliefs about religion and God with them. But...that's just me. I also understand people wanting to instill tradition and rituals into their children.
So, after making my decision, I also decided if the day came at any point in my son's life that HE decided he wanted to be circumcised, I would financially and emotionally support his decision.

Bethi Level 4 June 29, 2018

I hope to raise my children the same. Thank you for your insight.

1

The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends male circumcision for health reasons. We decided not to circumcise our son as an infant and had to do so at a later age for health reasons. If I had it to do again I would circumcise a male infant.

2

Otherwise, "it's got no character. No personality.". (stolen from Seinfeld).

Lol thanks

3

Unless you have a religious conviction to do so it would probably be worth discussing with a health practioner, preferably GP. Not being Jewish I have no insight into the benefits but I believe it was part of the Mosaic Law and therefore over 3,000 years old. I would hope we have moved forward from the required practices of the Bronze Age.

I would hope than on a site like this we wouldn't have to deal with thousands of years of religious backwardness and mumbo-jumbo, but that's apparently not always the case.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:118228
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.