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I had been talking to a guy for a month. Tried to meet up several times but he either had something come up or got sick. I was definitely getting the "not interested" vibe. But when I asked him he was always so like " no I am interested..lets just take it slow" So I point blank asked him if he wanted me or not. He gets all defensive and says for me to stop acting like we were dating!! Wtf?? I don't have time for games and I am too old for that shit anyway. Why can't men just be open and honest about their intentions??

#WTF
ErinS704 5 July 12
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54 comments

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2

Most cis hetero men are basically walking sex organs with large bellies. They typically go for the youngest, hottest woman they can find. If you have any romantic notions about men, forget it.

The book, The Rules for Online Dating advises women to delete any men who don't ask to meet them in person within four messages.

Women are advised to wait at least one day before replying to messages.

If a man asks to meet you, only meet them in your own city, at a public place. Take your own car. Let friends know where you are. Never tell the strange men where you live or give them enough information for them to figure it out for themselves.

If the man tries to make the woman pay for the date, stand up and leave immediately.

DO "google" the men before meeting them. Find out if what they told you is true. Are they married, employed, have kids, are in another relationship, are listed as sexual predators, etc.

End the date first. Don't sleep with anyone until you're in a exclusive relationship. Don't bare your soul to them. Don't complain to them about your past relationships, implying that you think THEY will solve all your romantic expectations. Don't chase, call, or throw yourself at them. Don't act needy and clingy.

Be mysterious and somewhat aloof until you get to know them much better, or until they've asked for an exclusive relationship. Then, be careful what you tell them.

Holy crap that's a TON of rules. I understand that women in this day and age need to be careful. I only take "issue" with one thing: I am always hesitant to know when to ask a woman I'm talking to online to meet. It seems like something they should initiate interest in. So I'll wait about a week, sometimes 10 days. And by then I'll mention wanting to meet her, and I'll apologize if it's too soon.
Also... sometimes getting chased feels good to us as well. My last serious girlfriend chased me. We were together 2 1/2 years and it was probably my best ever relationship. Just saying... not everything can be so easily slotted into categories.

@KCjoe108 Um, you do realize that all people are on a gender trait spectrum. You obviously have lower amounts of testosterone at work. I was talking about a typical cis hetero male strong in male traits.

There are always less aggressive men types for the more aggressive females. In my case, I don't react well to them. I need a male more aggressive than I am, and those are rare.

@birdingnut
No reason to seem so defensive! I can assure you my testosterone levels are fine, lol. But I was also raised to have manners.
Rules are meant to be broken after all!

3

The short answer is either he's hiding something big or it's a result of 'toxic masculinity as an aspect of the sexist paradigm.' Or, if you prefer 'of the traditional gender paradigm.'

The...much less short answer is that in the developmental stages involving gender identification and formation of autonomous self there comes the fundamental question that must be answered: what does it mean to be a man? What does it mean to be a woman? What qualities make up those things? And we are perpetually barraged on all sides by our culture, media, peers, teachers, parents, and so on a variety of definitions and key characteristics. And group dynamics favor homogeneity, and so toxic social control models are used to enforce these concepts into our internalized identity.

Boys are taught under this model that to be a man means to be strong and enjoy athletics and be confident and not show any vulnerability or weakness, especially emotionally. In this particular facet of 'masculine behavior' it is very likely the control method seen is physical violence and ridicule. A boy might bully smaller boys because they are shown that's what it means to be a man: both to prey on people who are weaker and to cause suffering to those who aren't 'tough enough' to mask emotion's like fear or sadness. Only anger is allowed. Add other facets like misogynistic behaviors and rigid adherence to traditional gender roles in layers.

Some guys are just shallow. Some guys are sketchy in one way or another, many simply don't even understand their own emotions and default to the master list of 'how would a MAN handle this?' Or replace the word man with John Wayne or a similar male culture model. 'Being confronted about your feelings? Get defensive, extract self' isn't an uncommon response, trying to turn the argument around is also a standard response. And sometimes people just waste your time incidentally.

In any event, the guy in question either really does not seem to have been in the situation for the same reasons you were, or was not willing to risk vulnerability.

Either way, you're probably better off and youre certainly better off finding that out sooner than later.

This is a well though out answer and so true. Serious thanks for it but I feel like I should get college credit for understanding it, lol.

@cimoore34 You're not wrong lol. The whole model is a lot of super crazy and complex social psychology issues all congealing into one gross jiggling mass of nonsense.

@geist171 good finally getting yo use my minor.

2

When I was your age, same thing! Maybe guys are serious about being in a relationship, but they must have a lot of fear going on or else they would be in one! It was very disappointing when men never came through when I was that age. I may have felt like I was running out of time (now I see that as young), maybe that came through to them! I finally gave up, it was emotionally draining for me. Keep looking you have plenty of time and be happy in the meantime! Good luck...

@jorj good point!

3

Let's look at another side. Most of the comments here bashed the guy for some reason. Your complaint was lodged for a reason. You wanted him and had expectations. If not, then no reason to be angry and complain. You gave too many chances and he took advantage of it. He'll continue being who he is and only you can prevent these feelings so try to be a bit more aware in the future. 🙂

As arguments offering an alternative perspective to this situation go, I appreciate this. Thank you for working to preserve the logical balance of this discussion.

Agreed, @IAJO163 and @geist171. Expectations are the issue and have doomed many a potential relationship, including for me. Down that path lies madness.

3

Many people (men and women) are bad at expressing their thoughts or opinions clearly and honestly. Also, many people tend to have things they want to hide. My only advice is just remember you can't change people. At the first sign they are not being upfront and honest then move on and move on quickly. Also, trust your gut instinct on these matters. That is your subconscious mind contradicting your conscious mind trying to rationalize the other person's behavior.

They say to trust your gut, first impressions,if something seems "Off" run away.....

0

Why can't women be open and honest?

I am .. To a fault it seems.. I was married for 13 years. If nothing else came of it, my openness definitely did. I have learned that being direct gets the most amount of attention. I can't read minds and you can't either.. So game playing is out!

@ErinS704 It's possible ,he was talking to you, and several other Women,juggling too many knives in the air to be comfortable.

1

I have a tendancy to talk to more women than men, it has always been this way. I can only think of about 10 reasons why. All of them having to do with my childhood. I am married to the love of my life, but I do not get out much, except for medical appointments and work, which I still do as I love what I do. Kate has a disease probably no more than 200 people on the planet have, this along with the hip problems, the knees that don't allow her to get around. Any way I try my best to say that I am not looking for a relationship. I have tried to help several people with what I know and have had some misunderstandings. Women think I am being forward, which if I were looking for a relationship I would probably be. But since I am not I just offer help. I want every one to be happy and get along. Life is hard enough and people do not need others playing games with them. This I will not do and if anyone thinks I am then they have to tell me.

I really think they should have a "just flirting" category.

@Carin I am not flirting here. I do not cheat, will not cheat. It is not fair to me, have more responsibilities than I wish, but I can handle them, it is not fair to my wife, I cannot lie to her, why would I want to, then I have to start remembering what I say and when, too much work and I am not smart enough to really pull it off, and for sure not honest or fair to any woman I would flirt with, there is no chance for a relationship, not while things are as they are. Perhaps not after that I cannot imagine nor would I want to speculate.

0

It might have something to do with “the demise of guys”:

Sad and work to be done.

5

Pay attention to the red flags that are flying in your face.
There is definitely something "not right" here.
Cut him loose.

0

Well, to be honest . It would get in the way of them getting what they think they want. Sometimes they won't be honest because they are waiting it out between a few options and don't want to commit to something until they think its the best deal they are going to get. Women do this too but are just more open about it. a man wants all the advantages he can get. including making you think you have always been number one in his sights. This is how i felt in my 20s. im just being brutally honest. its not something i agree with but.... men tend to think they are at a supreme disadvantage n that they are not actually the ideals women really want. If we were totally open and honest about everything we want , did, or thought. we assume women would usually never speak to us again out of shear offense. so being always in disguise we have to level the playing field by trying to get the very best woman we can get to believe us for just long enough they have invested and are now too close to back out now that they see some of our more horrible flaws. Obviously i don't speak for every man. hell, i may not speak for any of them but me. This was my usual way of thinking much of my life. i believe many men feel the same way and we would never actually admit or agree that a word of this was accurate. that would ruin our chances with who we want to get. live the lie . Deny deny deny. Like Bill Clinton.... I did not have sexual relations with that woman. say it over and over again and we start to believe it. say it a few hundred more times and then even you start to believe it.
No honey i don't find your friend attractive. No i would not like to sleep with her instead. No i would HATE to have her in our sacred bed.
I believe the only way to make a man more likely to tell the truth is to give him the impression you really like the thing he is trying to hide from you. Or sometimes just giving him the impression of a no pressure situation. take it or leave it.. .. so many men are just grown up boys. if you want to get to the truth you have to convince them there is no punishment or negative repercussion .. That or pretend to be overwhelmed by his charm and flatter him.. his arrogance will kick in and he will gladly tell you what he really wants if he thinks you are so anxious to try to give it to him.
I don't know if any of that really helps . But its the truth from a man who is embarrassed to admit this is the actual state of things ..

4

Yeah he's playing around. When your older ain't nobody got time for that. Lol.

6

I know. Been there. I don't like games either. Mine didn't have the balls to break up in person, no call, no text. Screw that noise. They keep telling me there are good ones out there. We'll find 'em. 'Til then, let's go have a beer. First round's on me!

Sounds good lol. I’m in the same boat as you. I’m wondering where the good women are hiding. I’m up for a nice quiet bar lol

11

He actually weighs 400 lbs, is unemployed, and lives in his mum’s basement. The photos he posted are his brother-in-law, Pete. You dodged a bullet.

LOL!

4

He was probably married or catfishing. He's definitely got something to hide. If a guy is truly interested, he'll do what he can to make it happen. You are better off moving on.

Absolutely!

2

Some of us are capable of openness and honesty. Don't let the bastards grind you down.

The Internet selects for posers and shallow people.

2

Yeah, he's hiding something....like mental illness.......run don't walk....

2

From my perspective: being older makes me more wary of internet connections with people for a 'dating' relationship. Until I have met the person, I don't consider a relationship other than a pen pal. I know many young people under 35 who do consider themselves in a relationship. I guess maybe it's a function of age? I used to talk on the phone to girl friends for hours.

xyz123 Level 7 July 13, 2018

True, internet relationships are not real. I think a lot of people, including myself, feel alone and overwhelmed with the dating world. making a connection over the internet feels good . I found it far too easy to read way too much into it however. If a pen pal makes zero effort to meet you in person there's definitely something wrong.

1

It's not just men it's people in general. The same thing happened to me several times. We talk for a well or so and I like to be up front and simply ask if you are actually interested let me know and if not just move on, you would think I asked them to marry me. I think people just have too many options these days. Don't change because the right guy will appreciate your forwardness. I know I would.

This posted four times. ? You can delete your duplicates-happens to many of us.

4

There are a dozen episodes of Catfish that start just like this. Move on

GwenC Level 7 July 12, 2018
9

Some are, you found the wrong guy. Cut your losses, forget him and move on. Don't make a priority someone who makes you optional.

7

Guys can be. You're just talking to the wrong dude.

7

Try not push all guys into the same hole as this one, who doesn't sound like he's worth your effort.

3

I can say that about some women as well- seems more of a human trait of the non-committal. He doesn’t seem like he is ready to commit to you and you want reassurance that you’re not wasting your time with him. As you two haven’t intersected here you need to continue going in opposite directions.

4

To be honest, This guy seems liking like he's hiding something. To me I would drop him like a hot potato. there are manother fish in the sea. believe me, he's not worth the hastle.

3

Some people are just ass-hats. But there are genuine people out there.

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