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My mother wants to take my daughter to church every sunday. It makes her feel good and my daughter has fun in the Sunday School. But I feel like it's brainwashing child abuse. I also feel like if you are going to brainwash somebody that you would do it when they're very young, so am I allowing my daughter to be brainwashed by letting her go? I've stopped letting her go recently and it is upsetting my mother. But should I be forced to allow my daughter to do something just to make my mother feel more comfortable in her beliefs?

Rawreality 4 Aug 4
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47 comments

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2

I have had a similar issue with my son. My wife is Christian so wanted to take our son to church. She took him to church and I tought him evolution as a species and the evolution of Christianity. He is now 11 and is now agnostic and leaning towards atheist. I use this tree a lot to show evolution of religion with a point of only one can be correct according to the majority of religions make sure you choose the right one.

Do you have a link to a larger version of the diagram?

@RPardoe will try to find tonight after work

@RPardoe [the40foundation.org]?

@Wahker Many thanks!

3

How old? And yes it is brainwashing. Don't let your parent guilt you into something you don't believe is right.

I remember when I met the Pope, when I was 3. I remember not knowing or hearing anything about god or religion before that. My mom shoved this crucifix with Jesus nailed to it and told me how he died for our sins. Man killed him for my sins. I was three, what sins did I make for someone to be murdered FOR me? I met him, he was very nice. Then I went back to the crucifix my mom showed me and I cried. I cried for something I did not do and my heart broke for some irrational belief.

I was trying to exsplain it to her and she said "i thought you wanted to show her both sides and let her decide". I said i do but.... I don't talk to my 6 year old about there not being a god yet. If she asked a Question i will gladly give her my take on things. But if i let her go to church while she is this age it is not fair. At this stage of learning she is the most susceptible to believe what she is told to. But if i wait till she asks and show her both sides i can let her decide.

@Rawreality I live in a very conservative area, when my oldest started K she heard "Jesus loves you" from a classmate. I found some helpful books.

Older than The Stars [amazon.com]

What Do You Believe? (Big Questions) [amazon.com]

If you can't avoid the subject, it's better to educate ?

3

You might consider asking your daughter what she'd prefer. That's how I handled my two (now grown atheist) sons. My wife at the time was mildly religious. We taught our kids both views, and let them decide. Somehow, reason prevailed. 🙂

@Gwendolyn2018 Lol I always hated Sunday School. And yeah I give a lot to charity, but the Salvation Army bell ringers get a side eye as I walk right past them. ?

4

As a grandmother, the 1 thing I won't do is undermine the decisions made by my grandkids' parents (unlike my mother did to me). If mom & dad say no sweets, I make sure I understand what falls under the 'sweets' heading as in, "ok, no candy, pastry & such. What about natural sweets like fruit & smoothies"?

I always put the expected event past mom & dad first before I offer it to my grandkid. Its called respecting parental authority.

Well done, grandmother!

2

Not knowing how old your daughter is and is of an age to make some of her own decisions, you are the parent and it’s your decision not grandparents. I never forbade my daughter from going to religious services with friends. Wanted her to be informed of others beliefs. We then had discussions about what she heard. She has made up her own mind.

She is 6. And has said things like "yes god is too real daddy" when she heard me talking to a friend about the issue.

2

I agree with you, it is brainwashing. I just hope it isn't too late to undo any damage to your daughter.

I have stopped letting her go. And i wonder the same thing. She has only gone 10 times round about. But she has said thing's like. "Yes Jesus is real dady" and i hate that she believed anything they taught her.

1

I try to remind myself that what my mother is doing she feels like is the best thing she could do for someone. Even if I feel like that thing is wrong my mother's intentions are sincere. But at the same time I feel like her beliefs should not infringe on my family's belief system.

Beliefs arrived at by any other means than one's own thoughts surely cannot be considered true beliefs. As with so many other things, this necessitates a level of maturity, before which, we can consider that one is not old enough to consent to being forced into religious practice and forced to learn religious dogma. In other words, if one is old enough to consent to practicing and learning the dogma, then it won't be considered forced.

2

She is your child. You, not your mother, decides how to raise her. If you don't feel comfortable having your daughter go to church with your mom, then recommend other activities they can do together. When you feel like your daughter is old enough, she can decide if she wants to go to church.

1

The mental health, care, and welfare of your daughter completely eclipses your mother's hurt feelings. And your position as the actual parent should be respected and final. And yes, religion is brainwashing and is exposing your child to the cruelty of learning that her own mind and intellect is not to be trusted and that what is not true, is to be believed as truth. Horrible.

1

You are the father, that means you have the responsibility to take care of her, not your mother. The only thing that matters here if your daughter really wants to go there. Then I would suggest you let her but also talk about what she learns there. Teach her to reflect on the things that are said and teach her to have doubts. You can't keep her from having contact with religion at all.
The age and level of maturity matters, of course. Is she younger than let's say six? Don't let her go, because she might not be able to reflect yet.

Dietl Level 7 Aug 4, 2018
0

I agree that religious indoctrination is brainwashing. I've seen the effect it's had in my nephews, and that sickens me, because they really won't have a fair shake of reasoning their way through it.

This said, I don't think there is anything wrong with letting your daughter go to Sunday school to get that information. While the specific stories and legends told are largely inaccurate, many of the morals she'll hear in Sunday school won't be so bad. Plus, this would give you a great opportunity to have discussions with your daughter and what you think and how you've gotten to those conclusions.

1

I agree with everything here that other people said. I would add that if I were in your shoes, not only would I put my mother on pause, I would come up with fun adventures/outdoor activities to do with my daughter on Sunday so that she would not have the desire to go to church.

1

I'm with you. My mother in law took my children to summer vacation church without my knowledge;reminds me of the scene in All in the Family when Archy Bunker Baptises the baby. My mother in law told my daughter she would go to hell if she didn't believe in god. This at the age of 7. Imagine a 7 yo trying to process all that. Fortunately my daughter is a healthy apparently unscathed adult at 37.

IMO you tell your mother you are in control and her getting upset is on her, not you. Be sane to your daughter.

1

Plenty of other places she can take her soft play areas , the park , swimming pools . It should be about the time spent with her and noy where it is .

0

I’m in a similar situation, except it’s my idiotic ex in-laws that are doing the brain washing and taking my son to church. Thankfully he hates it! ?

I have no control over it as that’s my ex time. But I make sure I discuss the ideas they put in his head and offer him perspective on those lies.

If you can, I’d avoid it. It’s child abuse.

0

I was brainwashed as a child, and it took me decades to grow out of it. Still, I sometimes attend churches for the sake of friends and family. It does me no harm, because I know it is myth. In fact, it gives me something to laugh about when I get home.

If you would please your mother and allow your daughter to attend church, be sure your daughter understands that it's just a game people play. They treat myths as if they were reality, but they are really fictitious. There are some good lessons to be learned from the myths, just as there are good lessons to be learned from Aesop's Fables.

If it were me, I would only pull my daughter out if I see that she is falling for blind faith and discarding reason. As long as she understands the mythical nature of religion, I would allow her to fellowship with her grandmother and others. I would leave the choice up to her whether to continue playing the game or not. It should not be grandma's choice, but the daughter's.

Of course, this is only my opinion. Take it or leave it as you will. 🙂

0

Some people never buy in to superstition, no matter how young they are when the indoctrination efforts begin. You could help insure that your daughter is inoculated against the religion pathogen by countering ever Sunday school lesson with a lesson on science. Take her to the natural history museum and show her the Dinosaur skeletons. Point out the inconsistencies in the religious stories. Teach her that people invent lots of fiction, tell lots of untruths, and participate in mass delusion. It will only make her stronger.

1

Is she your daughter or your mother's daughter?.... That's all I have to say

0
  1. If you feel forced, don't do it. Guilt shouldn't be a reason to take any action.
  2. If you teach your daughter to think critically, things will likely take care of themselves as far as the fear of brainwashing goes... After all .. I think it's nice for kids to believe in santa.. and fairy godmothers... And super heroes... And then they realise as they grow older that these are all just comforting fantasies... Like God. 😉
0

I agree that it's brainwashing and abusive. However, depending on her age, maybe ask your daughter what she thinks, too. Is it about spending time with her grandmother? Has she made friends there? Batting a kid back and forth without their input over ideologies breeds resentment.

0

She is your child. I would in advance book that time with your kid to do something like dance and ice-cream. Tell your mom she is invited. Just block that time so your mum’s choice is consistently the unattractive choice. Church cannot compete with ive-cream in the park with some friends or a water park.
When you spend time with your child, speak to her about what she sees in church and get her thinking. “Do they take money at church?” “Even if people are elderly or poor?” Hmmm. What do you think they do with that money? Ok, next time honey, try to look out for which car belongs to the preacher? What clothes is he wearing? Do you think they are more or less expensive than his congregation? “Do you go to church and look after homeless or sick people? “Why not?” Hmmm.
Open your child’s eyes to the corruption.

Livia Level 6 Aug 4, 2018
1

The churches want to start their attempts to sway a persons beliefs as soon as possible. Kids do not have the ability to distinguish real from not real. In addition are being presented with views from "Authoritarian" figures and are more likely to accept what evere they are told. A lot of times there is some coercian by forcing the children to go to church regardless of their preferences.

The young lady is your child and you have the choice and right to raise her the best you can per your perceptions of what is right.

Kids should bot be forced to any church and should not be introduces to religious teachings untill they are capable of reason and logic. That's my opinion.

0

Nope. Your daughter. Your wishes not your mothers. Gave my daughter her Hebrew name in their temple to make them happy. My daughter was 2.5 lbs at birth and was in hospital for over 3 months. It stopped there. No Sunday School.

1

No, no one should be able to "force" you to teach your child one thing or another.

However!! Like most things in life, she will be exposed to it at one time or another. Wouldn't it be better to be able to talk with her about it and offer useful ways to think about these and other things rather than trying to keep her in a plastic bubble and avoid exposure to them??

1

I took my son to church when he was about four years old for about six months to appease my Mom. She had a deep, fulfilling relationship with her small Presbyterian church, and for a while, Max was happy. But once the church members realized that (a) I was single and liked it, 🍺 I wouldn't tolerate the child abuser who stood at the sanctuary entrance every Sunday and felt up all the women as a "greeter," ☕ Max was mixed race and not "adopted" - then he was slowly ostracized and shamed for being who he was, and for who I am. Fit in or shut up - and that is a powerful brainwashing technique for a child. All of the lessons, the social pressures and habits force conformity. It's so antithetical to what the historic Jesus was all about - a homeless brown Jewish man who wandered the Palestinian countryside with a bunch of other guys and a single woman.

Anyhow, my son still remembers the ostracism and hypocrisy, and that was the legacy of taking him to church. You've made a good choice. Your Mom, like mine, will come to understand. Or she won't. But don't let that stop you. You are right.

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