Capitalism was built on slavery, colonialism, and imperialism. Without that, Europe, the US, and Japan would not have had the wealth to develop

That's a very superficial look at what has happened in Venezuela. What about the history of capitalist America/Saudi Arabia interfering with them?

No one wants t one like Venezuela. Think Finland, Denmark, Sweden, etc. wealthy, healthy, well educated, and happy countries with clean air and little government corruption.

@FreethoughtKaty
Finland terminated their UBI experiment. "Not sustainable". Sweden's economic & political system is failing due to the error of allowing the immigration of more dependent people than the country could handle. The Danes are becoming isolationists. I don't think the concept can be successfully implemented.

@PalacinkyPDX Sarnoff was not being held up as an admirable guy; rather, I thought what he said about capitalism rang particularly true. I apologize for using his words, since I could have used those of a number of others who have made similar observations. Apparently you have a personal beef with him, and had I known I would upset you, I would not have quoted him. I just happen to appreciate the perspective from which he sees the issue: much is made of how competition "builds character," about how one learns to be a much better person through trying to win in contests against others, and so on, while in fact, everything worth creating is done with the cooperation of at least one other person and generally numerous others. If one requires competition in order to be motivated, then his/her problem is deeper than is generally acceptable.

honest capitalism was a great thing, now it's a 1%er den of thieves.

Capitalism was always run by a den of thieves: Europe, the US and Japan stealing from the rest of the world.

@Renickulous Capitalism actually puts the power of government into the hands of the wealthy! What we have now is merely an extreme form of that…

[parncutt.org]

@PBuck0145
Cute.
So far, to my knowledge, all attempts to implement the UBI have failed.

@bigpawbullets Never has UBI been implemented in conjunction with a Universal Flat Tax. Both are needed to be fair to all segments of society.

@PBuck0145
I always love the "to be fair" statement.
That translates to me as "we're going to take more of your money".

@bigpawbullets You obviously did not read or understand the post.
[parncutt.org]

@PBuck0145
Yep read it all the way through. Lots of doublespeak. But I'm open to quantifiable proof.
No generalities. I'd like to see actual numbers on what this kind of thing would cost. It didn't work in Finland. I cannot imagine it working here any better than the debacle of the ACA. Maybe in Canada.

@PBuck0145
So, to be "fair", I re-read the entire article and found no actual real-world examples. Various theoretical datasets and graphs are presented. No actual, examples based on true earnings and costs of living. This is an article on a nebulous theoretical concept.

@bigpawbullets Quite true. Do you have any objective opinion of the theory?

@PBuck0145
Again, I'm fighting my personal bias on this.
I feel I'm already paying too much in taxes to support the slackers out there. Any time I see "fair" in these academic exercises, my blood pressure goes up. To see actual impact on folks and their income and net after taxes, real simulations would have to be run using real data.
If..... a UBI could be implemented without increasing the amount of income taxes I currently pay, I'd be interested in seeing if it would produce the proposed outcome, which would have to be stated, in detail. I think a simulation of this could be run on a high end computer. But I think the outcome would be unacceptable to those getting the bill for this, or, those thinking they can live the good life on the provided UBI.

@bigpawbullets Thank you for taking the time to consider this proposal.
What is universally true is that people tend to act in their own best interests. The challenge is to have a system wherein the so-called "slackers" are better off by working and contributing to society than by living solely off the dole.
Here are a couple of classic discussions on the subjects between two conservatives. The numbers quoted would need to be adjusted for inflation.
My personal opinion is that the UBI combined with a flat tax (without any deductions) on all non-UBI income would be more effective and easier to administer than would a negative income tax..

@PBuck0145
"A flat tax with no deductions" would drastically increase my tax bill. I'd never vote for that. You are simply advocating a tax increase for those who actually earn their income.

@bigpawbullets In our case, with a poverty-line UBI supplanting our income, we would be able to tolerate a 50% flat tax on all non-UBI income (with no deductions) and still be better off financially. In reality, the flat tax rate would be much lower than 50%, because the UBI would be financed largely through the elimination of most financial welfare programs.

Ironically, while a UBI/Flat tax system would increase productivity and thereby the overall wealth of society, the system has little chance of ever being tried, even on a small scale. There is too much leftist ideological opposition to the flat tax, and too much right-wing opposition to "social programs".

What is needed is a "Compassionate Liberal Capitalism". More cooperation and less left/right confrontation.

@PBuck0145
"Tolerate" a 50% flat tax.
I don't think I'm that "tolerant".
That would increase my current tax burden by at least 15%.
Those fun leftist subjective terms like "fair" & "tolerate" ALWAYS MEAN "Give us your money".

@bigpawbullets The implication is that I am a leftist. That implication is inaccurate and unkind. Despite your opinions, conservatives can also be both fair and tolerant.
As I stated earlier, we need more cooperation and less left/right confrontation.

@PBuck0145
Well, you sound pretty "lefty-liberal". But I'm not really trying to insult anyone. So, apologies.
Where you see a need for "cooperation" <subjective terminology>...... I see a need for more individual responsibility.

@bigpawbullets As stated earlier, I consider myself to be a "Compassionate Liberal Capitalist". The Liberal component is the classical variety, which promotes individualism. The regressive leftists have hijacked the current liberal narrative. I identify more closely with conservatives than with the current illiberal leftists.
Unless you are a radical anarchist, you must accept that some cooperation is required for a society to function.

@PBuck0145
I believe in my country, the leftist-liberal philosophy is destroying us. It is difficult to imagine "cooperation" between any of our tribalized factions.

Or the fact that bootstraps are a mark of privilege? ?

They are blind. We need balance.

@powder -- That's what I said. But even then, capitalism is the more self destructive and divisive of the two extremes. Taken that both extremes are operated with reasonable discipline, full blown communism should outlast capitalism. The only reasons for it not having done so in the majority of the so-called communist nations was the rampant corruption and totalitarian power at the top (when there really should be no "top" to corrupt.

Even so, exit polls showed him losing and they've never been so far off. It really does make more sense that machines were hacked, than that several states lost their goddamned minds.

@GinaMaria The election was delivered to the Current Occupant by 12 Russian GRU operatives.

@MissKathleen
Hmmm....
Service = work
Given = paid

@MissKathleen
I'd agree with you, but this ideal society doesn't seem to ever materialize. "Everyone contributing" won't happen as long as instutionalized welfare is an accepted part of society.

@MissKathleen
Impractical in our country with so many subcultures that feel that they are "owed" a lifestyle without working for it. Your point about "fighting it" is accurate.

@MissKathleen
So, in multi-generation families who exist on the largesse of The State, how would you propose unlearning "owed"? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or unkind here. But I've never heard or seen any effective implementation of a process to do that.

Bernie, the Independent, is a democratic socialist....

Nope. Democratic socialism does not put limits on entrepreneurship, or the sale of goods; it prevents monopolies and regulates bad financial practices for the good of the people and in fact the economy. Being a country the has 1% of all wealth makes it weak. Having a very large productive middle class raising steady taxes in a well managed economy makes a superpower. That’s why China has taken over. It’s now far, far more than the world’ workshop.

I can’t stand grocery stores. Everything from the fake smells pumped in and sterile fluorescence, the manipulative way they’re designed to make you walk past all the junk to get to any staples, the food waste that’s often still good but they aren’t allowed to put out or donate because it’s not pretty, they can arbitrarily change best by dates, and they’re just generally designed to waste as much of your time as possible and now theyre firing their entry level workers and making us do the work for them, for free, with no discount. Don’t even get me started on the fraudulence of the frequent buyer programs. If that’s your example of the triumph of pure capitalism you can keep it.

Visit a grocery store in Germany. Socialism all over the place. In the categories of bread, eggs, butter, and milk, you'll find one brand in every store that sells at a price set by the government in order to be affordable for those on a fixed income. It works.