The bible is full of rape, slavery, homophobia, misogyny and murder. Where is the morality here? It's hypocrisy pure and simple.

Morality is inherent in animals, or at least mammals. There is no need of a book with a set of rules for that.

Consider the case of a pet dog.
Once you start taking care of it, it tries to show the affection back to you.
Which religion does it follow to exhibit this morality? ?

Perfectly acceptable response.

I actually question the morals of most religious people anyway.

100% spot on.... The Golden Rule! Most religious types I have known are fake and have a lack of morality. I love to watch people's face when the subject comes up and I let them know that I am not a Christian. That is usually followed by, Well, wh...wh... what are you?" I just say "Atheist" with a wink of my eye!

I think early humans that came together for safety and to share resources had to solve problems as they arose. When stealing became a problem they agreed to make a rule against it. The same goes for killing, and lying and so forth. These became the moral code they created to maintain a peaceful community.

Morality was practiced long before rulers (governments) and religion existed. Religion adopted the moral codes and took over the teaching and promoting.

So my answer would be...logic and reason inspired the creation of morality that allows groups and communities to co-operate in a more peaceful manner which predates religion.

Morality exists because of our social evolution. Family groupings are the basis of it. We would have never succeeded in our early history, without moral cooperation within a tribe or social grouping. This is what I believe. I recommend a book called Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind, by Yuval Noah Harrari. Very enlightening .

That’s a scary question, because that means the only reason they are moral is due to their belief in god. That’s why if someone could ever produce an unarguable proof god doesn’t exist, then I hope they keep it to themselves. If that happens the religious right will start the apocalypse.

I actually believe that morality existed before the Bible, before we developed written communication. It's a bit backwards. People think morality comes from the Bible, when morality always existed... People just wrote it down.

I tell people my sense of morality comes from the same place the rest of me comes from; the processes of evolution.

I think that, as human beings, we are responsible to one another and to future generations, rather than to some imaginary friend in the sky. My morality is based on that responsibility to others.

Lots of religious people (not friends) ask that question. I like to begin by asking them where they get their morality - - - then clarify . . . So things that please your god are defined as moral? Then I talk about bible goodies - - -I'll just post a link - - [evilbible.com] I also include moral to own a slave and beat him/her as long as the slave does not die right away. . . or for a man to sell his daughter as a sex slave when she is old enough to bleed. etc is all, according to the teachings of his bible, rules that please his god so they are moral.

I've had theists tell me it's impossible to have morality without their god and his book. It was no use even having a discussion, because with their circular logic, they are not able to see any other possibility.
I was told that they are sorry for me and that one day I will find morality through their deity.
I left the discussion to practice my moral stance of not tolerating fools any longer than necessary.

No, but morality is certainly not exclusively the domain of religious groups. I would argue that so many religous people are completely immoral it is not unthinkable then that the nonreligious could be moral. Ideas of morality arise from secular philosophy as much from religious beliefs.

not a religious friend. religious antagonists yes. my friends don't ask obnoxious questions like that. they know i am an ethical person. ask your friend why she thinks people can't be good unless they have a promise of heaven or the threat of hell, and whether it isn't more ethical or moral to be good because that's the kind of person you are!

g

I had a Christian upbringing, not a serious one really, mostly a few years of bible school until the church tried to require my parents to join. I've always tried to treat people well, the whole golden rule thing, but do look back and see how I often failed. It amazes me that people think religion is the sole gatekeeper of morality, and from experience those of the smaller, often more progressive religions can be the same.

Indeed, I have... And she knew better, but she asked anyway.
I told her what I always tell them:

"My morality comes from me. I rape as much as I want and I kill as much as I want. And on both counts, that number is 0.
I don't need some book to tell me whats right and what's wrong. I can see it for myself.
And by the by... Getting morality from the bible is questionable. Considering it condones incest, rape, murder, slavery, etc. All the things that a normal society condemns."

Human morality predates religion. Religion is not the only source of morality (questionable here too). I have this bizarre idea that I should help others, not be greedy, seek to be environmentally friendly. I have devoted my life to education based on my own moral compass.

It seems this is a question a lot of people ask of atheists, though I've never had anyone ask me that outright. The closest was a friend talking about absolute, objective truth. The problem in answering about morality is that the question itself has some serious problems. In particular, the idea of objective morality isn't a given just because someone believes in a god. There are some very different views on what's moral between different religions and even within the same religion. There's no moral universality among believers, so the question is implicitly asserting something that ostensibly sets it apart from non-theism but is patently false.

Some things I'd say:

• Why isn't your morality the same as the Hindus? Or the Muslims? Or the Buddhists? Or the Westboro Baptist Church? Why are there differences among the devout?

• Why don't you follow every letter of scripture? Why do you pick and choose what's moral and what's not? Where does your morality come from when you acknowledge that there's immorality in stoning people to death for working on the Sabbath or to kill children for disobedience or for a father to sacrifice a son because he has a voice in his head telling him to do so? New covenant?! No, that doesn't apply unless something specific was addressed, because Jesus is quoted as saying that he came not to abolish the law but rather to fulfill it. He never said anything about slavery, for instance, and Paul even provided rules for slaves to obey masters, yet most people today acknowledge that slavery is an immoral practice. Where does this moral sense come from, as it obviously doesn't come from God.

• It's pretty easy in most cases to determine what's good and bad, or at least better and worse, based upon human experience of those things — basic things in our day-to-day experience. There are moral dilemmas that ethicists labor over, but generally it's not difficult to see why pain is less desirable than pleasure or how losing a limb is a handicap. We have an experience of what's healthy and unhealthy for society and for individuals, and each community and person is different but we tend to see similarities emerge early on in human development, even in things as simple as empathy. There are survival elements baked into human brain wiring, and that is part of our morality. We can think in non-religious terms about the value of life and choice and so on and come to some better understanding of what's good and bad or why there's conflict in making such determinations. It's complex, but it's clear that one's belief in God alone is insufficient to provide an objective moral framework.

• We see moral structures emerge in other animals to varying degrees, guiding interactions with others in their community. The more social the species, the more advanced these structures are. We don't see wolves praying to Jesus, or chimps praying to Vishnu, or lions praying to Allah, yet we see moral principles at work. Without a belief in God, monkeys have a sense of fairness. How? Likewise, humans develop rudimentary moral sense in early childhood, without a clear concept of God (to say nothing of belief).

From myself and society, it's a slow and steady process. We are happiest when doing good, we wrestle with tough questions and do the best we can, learn from our mistakes and move forward.
We find plenty in religion that is morally reprehensible and fight against it rather than adhering to it blindly.

One thing I find is that morality tends to be fluid when you are dealing with religion. Morality changes from sect to sect, from religion to religion from time period to time period. So really you have only a non-religious morality that is consistent because they are based on human principles and in the video greed is mentioned. Greed can be seen as moral behaviour in a religious context. But destructive greed is never seen as moral behaviour in an atheist context ---

Tried to find an attribution for the quote and could not immediately do so, but it is basically...

If you need the threat of eternal punishment to keep you from doing harm to others, you are not a good person.
You are a psychopath on a leash.

I had known a guy for several years but he had never asked what religion I was. When asked I told him I was an atheist and his immediate response was "But you seem so moral." I explained that morals don't come from holy books and it was pretty easy because his ex had an affair with their preacher and his brother isn't a very ethical person to put it mildly although he is very religious. I didn't bring up those things directly but tend to nudge toward them when circumstances warrant.

I usually say something along the lines of, well, if you need someone telling you that murder and rape and thievery is wrong... I mean...

What I want to know is where does the morality come from in so-called "religious" people!? My ethical framework and morality feel, seem and appear to be WAY ahead of many of the local church-goers and well-known teach-by-example figures. Sheesh!

Good answer! The Golden Rule wins out every time