Has anyone else had a religious friend ask where your sense of morality comes from? Didn’t really know what to say except that I enjoy making people feel good. Treat people as you want to be treated. That’s psych 101 to me...
I would ask them where they find morality in a bible that is so full of immoral actions justified and sanctioned by an immoral god.
I would tell them, from evolved human nature, supplemented by reason, knowledge of history and cultural inheritance; in other words from the same place as yours. Only mine is modest, tries to move on, adapt and keep up with the times, it does not pretend to be perfect, to have finally answered every question or to do so by claiming a false divine authority which keeps it ill adapted and only suited to a distant primitive past. Religious morality is only secular morality trying to big itself up with extra authority, which in the end only makes it harshly inhuman an inflexible.
I would then like to point out that the fact that as there are so many different religious moralities, often deeply at odds with one another, they surely follow exactly the pattern I would expect from early pre-global communications cultures, if they were in fact secular moralities, and that if they were inspired by god they would all be the same, or at least as similar as the modern consensus seem to be. Therefore religious morality is a very strong proof that there is no god!
“My family raised me like this?” No no... “I pull ideas from my buttercup” is a better answer... it bothers me so much that some people think just because we don’t believe in a sky daddy, a book that falls from the sky and that a man can split the see with his magic stick doesn’t mean we’re horrible people.
Naw.. my morals come from my intelligence. I’m smart enough to know that lying or stealing will hurt someone else and by nature I don’t hurt others. If they hurt me or someone I love, I’ll make them their life a living “hell” but that’s another story. Smh...
I was raised in the LDS/Mormon faith. My parents raised me to stand up for what is right, and to treat others as I would like to be treated. When I got old enough to think for myself, I held onto how one should treat others and standing up for what is right. I do not believe in organized religion - or the Mormon faith, and highly doubt that there is a "God" or "supreme being". I choose to hold myself to a high standard of ethics and integrity because that is what I have found to be moral. I am able to think and deduce for myself on such matters. I do not need a religion to tell me this. My past experience with religion has mostly exposed me to hypocrisy.
It does not take a god to make people realize that others do not like being poked in the eye with a stick the same way you do not like being poked in the eye with a stick. Morality comes from the societal system that you live in. This is why morality is slightly different in different parts of the world. Otherwise you might have your god changing it slightly because of copyright laws.
My reply...
If you need a book to tell you your morals: you are just a naturally immoral person. If you are choosing a book for morals, try one which says rape is wrong, slavery is wrong, and killing people for mild infractions is wrong.
This I think is one of the best retorts to that question.
I don't know who coined it though.
If you can't tell the difference between right and wrong, you don't lack religion, you lack empathy.
I believe you and your religious friend share the source of your morality.
It begins when we are and selfish and our parents teach us the difference between right and wrong. Then, as we grow, siblings, teachers, friends, etc. continue to impress moral lessons on us in a variety of ways because the morality we learn improves how well the social structure works for everyone. Finally, when we are mature enough to think it through, we realize that everyone feels the same pain and sorrow that we feel in response to the behavior of others. Our response to that knowledge is to refrain from such behaviors. For most, the circle of influence extends from family to friends, and then to larger groups in which we find interest. Finally, the edges of that circle of influence begin to fray and we find it more and more difficult to sympathize with 'faraway unknown others.' When we give, we give only leftovers. Really, how many of us are willing to give--to our own detriment--to benefit the lives of others (unlike what we are willing to give to our family and friends), whom we have never met and never will?
The initial helping of selfishness and survival instinct, with which we are all born, remains and continues into adulthood to a greater or lesser degree for all--religious and nonreligious alike. Thus, the authors of the Bible received their moral education in the same multitudinous ways that you and your friend received yours. The only difference is that some attribute moral knowledge to a supreme being instead of to the evolution of empathy in their own lives.
No but if I did I'd have some fun with them, fake them into thinking I had done all sorts of horrific things and had no idea whats wrong with it before asking wtf is wrong with them and telling them they need Jesus ? Then I guess I'd have to explain mirror neurons, the biological imperative for empathetic nerve systems, the undeniable benefits of the golden rule and how christianity didn't invent compassion, etc. It'll be a long night but at least it started with a laugh.
Yes, I have been asked. I always say that my moral code is based on the concept of minimal violation of (1) human dignity and respect, (2) environmental sustainability. The vast majority of our moral choices in life are choices between comparative rights and wrongs ( between greater and lesser goods or between the lesser of two evils), NOT between absolutes. That is a much more defensible moral code than one based on religion.
I haven't been asked that directly but I have seen it asked. The question really seems to be a passive/aggressive insult to imply that Agnostics have no ability to tell right from wrong. Are Christians really so lacking in a natural sense of morality that they require an instruction manual that they claim to derive from the Bible? No, so the purpose of asking the question is really as mentioned, a passive/aggressive or marginally disguised insult or they are simply unbelievably stupid or some combination of the two..
I think that is one of the most common concerns religious people have about the non-religious: they conflate belief in the supernatural with morality.
My kid’s response is, “imagine you are babysitting a child. Do you want to hurt or abuse the child? Is that because your religion tells you not to? Chances are you wouldn’t want to hurt a child whether or not you have any religion. Well...that’s how I feel about all morality.”
Morality (or lack of it) exists before people attach religious ideas to it. And it will exist after the supernatural speculation dies away.
Empathy existed before religion, it's a part of human evolution. That simple
Your morality comes from the same place as most people. The idea that morality comes from religion is silly. The christian bible is fine with infanticide, slavery, genocide, female subservience and a host of other things almost no one today is ok with. We have our morality as a human trait, not a religious "gift". They have morality in spite of religion.