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Bullies---TIME'S UP

Workplace drama - Day 2

A young lady from the new hire class walked out crying today. I stopped to see if I could help. Then guided her into a side room and asked what had happened.

It seems she overheard some other young ladies in the class whispering about her. Saying things like she was flirting with the trainer etc. as well as about her appearance. She is a thin young woman, barely weighs 100 lbs by the look of her. I feel she probably has low self esteem and some anxiety problems but this certainly did not help.

Another co-worker walked in to talk to her and I went to get the trainer from the class to join us. I stayed in his class while he left to go see what was happening.

I told his class that they were all young adults now, and not in school any longer. I said bullying is not to be done at the workplace or anywhere else for that matter. I told them they were young adults now, and needed to act accordingly. Then I said this...

The one thing in this world we can do for each other is be kind. Without kindness it makes it really tough to get along in this world of ours. We are all going to the same place when we die. Don't you want to be the best person you can be to others while you are alive?

One fella nodded his head. I knew which little group had upset the girl. They were all ducking their heads, casting eyes to the ground, and not saying anything. Only turning around to each other giving the look like she (me) knows its us. I knew.

I have zero tolerance for any type of bullying. When I see it I'm going to call it what it is, and call them out. No matter where I am, at work, at the store, or school. TIME'S UP!

By JustLuAnn6
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12

It takes a village, and we all need to help.

Dwight Level 7 Jan 30, 2018
8

I changed schools in the middle of my last HS year...and I went through h..l the first three weeks, Two male students...and one female...decided to call me ugly, four eyes, insignificant...until the day one of those boys said to me "You are the school's ugliest girl." I grabbed the textbook on my desk and I smacked it on his face....IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE CLASS. I was never insulted again.

DUCHESSA Level 8 Jan 30, 2018

Bravo!

8

Thank you for your kindness and active interest in Time's Up. I was bullied in school, and when it was over I never looked back, and rebuilt my life. I became a trainer, and saw all types of behavior over my career, and made an effort to be inclusive and caring based on my own experience. I like to think that helped people see how we need to work in the business world. "In the end, only kindness matters."

poetdi56 Level 7 Jan 30, 2018
5

Bullying, gossip, ridicule can certainly cause pain and psychological harm to a young person. I got laughed at a lot in high school, and it seriously harmed my self-esteem and feelings of self-worth. I know that many kids have been treated a lot worse than I was, and suffered much more. Children need to be taught to be kind, to be sensitive to the feelings of others. And bullying should not be tolerated.

MST3K Level 8 Jan 30, 2018

Nothing like "getting the same".
A kid...10 y/o...was told he was fat and stupid....and he retorted with "Your balls are small; I saw them at the locker room." The bully run away (still running) and my brother laughed until the day he passed.

5

Well done!!!

KKGator Level 9 Jan 30, 2018
5

Good job. We all need to learn to be kind to each other as long as we share this planet together. There is no reason to bring unnecessary pain into this world. Just living gives us enough inevitable pain.

Rudy1962 Level 9 Jan 30, 2018
4

The mean girls group needs to be dis-banded. Hope they got the message and don't just go off and try to justify their behavior to each other. Nice job JustLuAnn!!

How do you disband a group? Sometimes, I think, it has to be done very carefully as it could backfire and cause even more animosity.

@JackPedigo In a work situation if there are different shifts you can move them around. In school teachers should do what they can but it is difficult. I just walk away and don't associate. My work experience was tricky and I did end up being fired - the only job that EVER happened on. Woman who canned me later admitted it was a mistake. the mean group was actually a group of GUYS but they acted just like a mean girls group. That is the thing, it usuallt is only 3-4 people in these groups, depending on the over all number of employees or students.

@silverotter11 My late partner had a way to handle elementary school bullies. I don't remember exactly how but she would usually have them call their parents and tell them what they did.

The problem with work situations is if the bully is one who is using their position to push others around. I was in that situation but luckily tax codes changed and I was able to deal with the problem by retiring early.

I told my other co-workers and they all agreed that this little band won't last long with any of us. Zero tolerance for bullies.

@silverotter11 Teachers, my friend, are not there to educate but to provide knowledge. I didn't earn a Masters in Anti-Bullying / Manners but in Teaching Spanish.
We, teaches, report the situation and the school administration and the Justice System are the ones that should be taking action.

@DUCHESSA What do you do if the admin does not take action? What do you do if your boss sides with the bullies? Been there, it's tough.

@silverotter11 Teachers can't do anything; we are not the disciplinarians. BTW, the school administration always intervenes...and if it doesn't work the matter is passed to higher authority within the DOE.

4

Good work!

4

I have mixed feelings about this story. Mostly because I was not there to witness it and don't know exactly how much bullying went on. I also don't know if you were in the class when it happened or if you just happened by. I also don't know your position. Are you a Manager? (Not that that matters much.)
I have been that professional Instructor. It's a difficult job, sometimes, but it was his job to deal with the situation. This is not meant as criticism of you. You did handle it well. But I wonder if he just didn't know what had happened, wasn't paying enough attention, was afraid to deal with it, was being insensitive (or something else).
If I was the instructor, I would have given the class a break, but asked the bullies to stay in the classroom. I would have spoken only to those who were causing the issue. If the behavior, or any similar behavior continued, I would have reported the incidents back to their new Team Leaders/Managers or Human Resources (depending on company policy).
Normally, I would not initially address the whole class. That uses peer pressure, a form of manipulation, to try to shame the bullies. Again, it's not a terrible tactic, just not the one I would have used if this was the first incident. If the young lady was crying, I also have to wonder if it had been going on longer than I think.
Overall, a very interesting story and I'd love to have a talk with that Instructor.

MrLizard Level 8 Jan 30, 2018

I am an instructor but it happened in another training class for the company I work with. There was no way to dismiss the group. So I chose to address everyone while their instructor went into small class with the young lady and other leaders. It was not the best solution but it was my only option to address it with them. Normally yes separating from large group is preferable unless you have no option to do that. I took measures doing what I felt was right. This is not a regular school setting bit a company setting.
.

3

Good for you!!

I also remember saying "¿Alguien más?" = Anybody else?

3

LuAnn, while I completely agree with you, I gotta say this behavior is almost ingrained. I wish even that I could say "oh, this generation, ya know" but I suspect they (and I mean "THEY" ) have been pitting us against each other from the get go. It's their last defense. I was just considering this recently, as matter of fact. Hear me out.
I believe that once a very long time ago, women were considered equals to the men we worked along side with. It was survival and a woman would fair no better in the wild without a man as a man would do without her. We depended on one another and, we relied on more than that even. We were communal. We lived with our extended family and those who came to us and could further benefit the "pack". Numbers, and you were only as strong as the weakest member.
I also suspect that in some instances, the women of the group were somewhat exalted. It was cold and you were sure to die a horrible death but we were together, serving and protecting and fighting off sabertooth tigers all the same. And somehow we made it through.
Then some damn jerks wiggled in there and screwed it all up. They realized that we were much easier to control once we were isolated from our team. So now women are subservient and weak and abused by the men who once defended us just as fiercely as we did them. And women brought about all the original sin and we are treacherous and untrustworthy and deserve to be burned as witches! THEY did it somehow! But, that wasn't fool proof. They had to make sure we wouldn't start comparing stories while getting gang raped by the invading armies. Even without men on our side, if we stuck together and revolted just as a bunch of pissed off broads, they wouldn't stand a chance! We'd be back on top and stripping them of their foolish gold togas and thrones made of our children's bones in no time flat. They truly do understand how powerful we are. So, they had to turn us against each other. Our own sisters are now the enemy. We plot to steal other's husband's, we are tramps and wretched creatures and have to point out another as a witch just to save ourselves from the public drowning. I mean, THEY split us up!
Of course, we would eventually say enough with the "man as master" bs and they knew we'd catch on to that pretty quick but it sure is hard to be strong and heard over the chuckles of our fellow suffragists snickering behind your back because you have a hole in your stocking.
We have been systematically trained to be afraid of one another. Could you imagine what us bitches could do if we all stood together in unity and sisterhood? This world would be spic and span in no time and they would be thrown into the volcano tout de suite. Thousands of years of careful brainwashing unraveled in one hour book club. Ha!
Those girls today are not bullies. They are controlled subjects doing exactly as they are supposed to. They don't mean what they say and I really think in the quiet before sleep, their hearts hurt and regret and feel that something is inherently wrong and vow to be kinder tomorrow but then the sun rises and those Pretty Girls on tv are rebooting our implants with their snarky remarks and beautiful mansions and off we go into the world with so much suppressed fear of being the first girl pointed out as the devil's cohort, that we point fingers before we even know where we are pointing.
This is just a thought I had last week while doing dishes and realizing I have no real girlfriends and so this is my theory this week. I might be wrong but I bet if we all sit down one of these days and compare stories, we might be able to find our strength again.
Until then, us puny girls must believe we are being especially singled out because THEY identified us a long time ago as the biggest threats. We are their best soldiers against us. I hope we all turn our sights one day. Keep your chins up, ladies. We once fought saber tooth tigers. We can do this again.
Another AL Theory. Enjoy!

Alicia_J Level 4 Jan 30, 2018

AJ There is some merit to these thoughts. However, I have seen so many bullies in my time, and not all were women. In fact, most were men with Alpha Male personalities. A bully is just a term for someone who is dominant over another with words or physical abuse. Usually over a weaker person in mind or body. These were nothing but bullies. Perhaps we were engineered by "they" but the real question is who are "they?" I call them the powers that be. Ones in positions of authority.

@JustLuAnn our government models bullying; our society tries to spread kindness. We must demand congruency from those who SERVE US, even at the highest level. The more we acquiesce, the more we are modeled/taught conflicting behaviors. Melania may have been bullied to change from cyber-bullying to bullying, but we don't have to knuckle under her husband.

Oh yes, They are the churches, the governments, the goons lurking in the shadows and listening to the private conversations I'm having in my own home through my toaster!
And also oh yes, men are just as beaten into all of it too. They don't trust each other anymore than we do. But while they are wondering which guy in the bar has a faster car and a bigger dick, I do believe we will be the first to look past our own egos and
find the strength to eventually reach out to that knock-out broad with the great chest even though our first thought was to punch your boyfriend for looking at her.

@Alicia_J, humans never "once fought saber tooth tigers". A paleolithic ancestor of early Europeans DID deal with some large cats that were armed with scimitar-like fangs.

Wow...nicely said @Alicia_J and my thoughts exactly, but I could never express it quite so eloquently.

@BookDeath Ha! Alright smarty pants, maybe not saber tooth tigers but certainly bears and Decepticons.

2

Time's UP! You did a great job.

2

As a slender female who has been on the receiving end of much vicious gossip and bullying throughout my life, I salute you.

But they'll find other ways to get to her. They always do. You can't stop them from glaring at her in the hallway, and smirking like they've witnessed a joke whenever they look at her. Raising their volume just enough for her to hear, when they talk amongst themselves in the lunchroom, about something that pertains to but does not directly indicate their intended victim: like how much they hate the haircut she happens to have or the brand of jacket she's wearing.

If she tattles to authority its likely to get worse: colder, meaner, more physical. Property destruction, theft, tampering, campaign of horrible outright lies to turn others against her. The best thing that can happen is for authority to catch them in the act so the victim doesn't have to say anything.

Yes, the culprits need to get the message that bullying is unacceptable here and has consequences. But don't for a minute think that's going to help your victim.

Regardless of how the bullies are handled, the victim needs to learn how to deal. I know because I never did and that's why I'm basically a shut-in. I think this young lady would benefit most from a sympathetic ear who acknowledges her suffering with compassion and does NOT cloak her in a protective mantle.

My best to everyone.

2

I am mentally cheering like wild for you. There can be no tolerance for this sort of behavior any longer. Especially not from adults.

2

Excellent!

kmdskit3 Level 8 Jan 30, 2018
2

Bravo. Beautifully done. smile001.gif

Betty Level 7 Jan 30, 2018
2

I don't do well with bullies.

Get a gun... use it... once the first one drops... the others stop showing up.

I don't need to go to prison for the rest of my life.

1

I have watched this vid several times...and I love the lesson the bully got. Well deserved

DUCHESSA Level 8 May 14, 2018
1

I was bullied when I was in high school. This persisted for around 2 years until one afternoon after school I took a heavy chain from the parking lot and attack the bully. I drew a ripped shirt and lots of blood. The bullying stopped and there were no adverse consequences from school because it happened after school hours. However, I came to school armed with a switch blade just in case. Never had to use it. The bully came to school all full of bandages and totally ignored me which was exactly what I wanted.

1

My daughter was being bullied at school at 13 yrs of age. I had to give the most practical advice that I could. Of course she had all the usual stuff like tell the teacher etc.She lived with her mum so I could not be there for har all the time. My advice was this, they way to stop bulling is friends. The more friends you have the more there will leave you alone. If you have not got any friends then look for the next one they pick on and stick up for them. I told her about my school days and fighting two guys at once because they were bulling my mate. I beat them because they were cowards.

273kelvin Level 8 Jan 30, 2018
1

@JustLuAnn You never answered the question: had the young lady been flirting with the trainer? What actually had the young lady done or said to cause this reaction?

Also, by your description, I'm not sure whether this reaches the level of bullying. If they weren't addressing her directly with their statements, and they were talking quietly as a group during a break and not trying to bother anyone, it's just their opinion. ( Did she hear "I can't believe she is flirting with the instructor!" or "I can't believe she said that to the instructor!" ) It seems to me that she may have done or said something to the trainer which created an atmosphere of "cattiness" which many people are apt to fall into as a reaction to certain events.

I was not there, so I understand there may have been factors seen or heard or implied which may have impacted the actual situation. However, as described, this sounds as if you took the word of someone without actually finding out the other side's story (and actually doing an investigation) and immediately bringing the hammer down on someone for what may not have been the actual situation.

I would also keep an eye on her after this incident as well. If she can be moved to tears just by someone talking about her behind her back, she may also be "offended" that someone said, "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas" and could turn into an HR nightmare.

I think we were twins separated at birth. You made every point that I was going to suggest. Much thanks.

Even if we weren't there, and even if the newbie was less than innocent, that little speech didn't hurt anyone, and now everyone will be on their toes. No point in trying to read her future behavior. Silence is condoning.

I read the first paragraph of your post....and I had to answer. Why do you imply it was the lady's fault? See, I was victim of bullying in more than one occasion....and my only doing was to be -according to the others- ugly and with eyeglasses.
See, if the young lady was flirting....SO BE IT....Maybe the other girls were pissed off because the trainer didn't pass a ball to them.

Duke THANK YOU. It's so refreshing to witness a man actually supporting women and not going straight to the classic "what did SHE do? what was SHE wearing?" victim blaming like so many men (and women sadly.) Your sister(s), daughter(s), niece(s) are lucky to have you and your mama raised you right.

Clearly you do not understand 'flirting'. For some a woman paying rapt attention to a trainer, teacher, etc. is concidered flirting or trying to be the teachers pet. Been there done that and ALL I was interested in was learning how to make my own ceramic glazes. Victim blaming is wrong and need to stop as much as the bullying.

On dinner break. I will address your thought later tonight. Not off till 11 cst..I've run out of time for now.

@Duke @silverotter11 @ReadyforaChange:

Whoa whoa whoa ... the story is WOMEN were talking about another WOMAN who was eavesdropping on their conversation and got her feelings hurt. (SO FAR - I asked for more details since the details about the whole situation were lacking.)

This isn't rape, or assault or any of that hard core stuff, so this "victim" - as you claim - may or not be a victim at all. And ANY HR department worth its salt should ALWAYS conduct some type of investigation into any claims of abuse, bullying or whatever - BEFORE a decision to bring some type of reprimand to bear.

YOU are ASSUMING that this woman is blameless, and as I stated in the middle of my first posting "I was not there, so I understand there may have been factors seen or heard or implied which may have impacted the actual situation." Apparently, the knee-jerk reaction for most of you is just too strong after reading just the first sentence. But human nature as it is - a reaction is usually caused by an action - especially when it comes to the claws coming out with catty women. (From psychology today: [psychologytoday.com]

I don't condone bullying, but I have also seen women use tears to take out other employees that they didn't like. Just like you, the management believed the tears first, and didn't do a real assessment of the situation until they punished someone who didn't warrant it - and you don't get a "do over" in the real, working world. So until I hear the rest of the story, I'm sticking with the "both parties are innocent until proven guilty" and you can take some pepto bismol for that righteous indignation. You might want to see a doctor about that knee as well.

It does not matter what she did. No one deserves to be treated in this manner. We do not know what issues she may or may not have at home that contribute to this break down. One cannot judge the victim. For all we know there are stressors at home contributing to her situation. Another lady I work with said a schoolmate had been bullied and then went home and killed themselves. To answer you question she told me she did not flirt, and was speaking to him as a trainer. They mocked not only this but her looks. They mocked the clothes she was wearing. None of what she did could ever warrant being taunted in this manner. No one should place blame or judge the victim.

@Duke I agree 100 percent Duke.

@JustLuAnn I don't agree. Of course it matters what she did - if in fact she did say or do something which was out of line. And so far you have given no indication that the commenters were debriefed and asked what their exact comments were - which may or may not have been as bad as the afflicted one made them out to be.

You might as well say that drunk drivers are blameless, because they were impaired and didn't know what they were doing when they drink and drive. Hogwash. If you do something out of line and get called on it, you can't play the victim card.

As I stated previously, I wasn't there so I don't know how bad this was. However, it appears that the person reporting is a little bit biased, so the people in this community will never really know what actually happened in the training room. And it appears that no one cared to ask everyone involved what happened, to get both sides of the story. A good example of really poor HR work.

No matter what was said, if a woman collapses because other employees comment on her clothing, she needs some serious counseling to take care of that issue - as well as the other issues that are most likely evident. The employees who commented shouldn't be given 100% blame because they probably didn't know that she was so "fragile" to begin with, and may not have commented if they had known she would flee the room crying. And they shouldn't be held responsible for her eavesdropping on their private conversation and their comments taken out of context if that is what happened.

Stop giving a pass to everyone who claims to be a victim. You are only condoning poor behavior if they are lying, and enabling them to continue to play the victim. I think she played you all and she will be an HR nightmare as well as a poor performer ... because all she has to do is cry, and people fall over backwards to make way for her "feelings" without assessing the complete situation.

The real bad player here is the inept HR department which didn't do its job properly.

@athiestInNC Perhaps the clothing she had on was all she could afford. Maybe she just found out someone close to her was dying...or she had put her pet down the night before. Perhaps the snarky shit she heard from the others was the last push over into an emotional breakdown. I have to wonder if the fact you are objecting so much and so loudly has anything to do with the fact that you don't like or respect women. Ponder that, won't you?

@ReadyforaChange I would be making the same arguments if this were a man. And I've been in this position before. I am one of eight children whose dad was an abusive, drunk, unemployed deadbeat and whose mother was making minimum wage trying to support the family. My clothes were always threadbare hand me downs, and we never had the best of anything, ever. It was always Kmart clothing, government assistance food (before the days of food stamps) and old beat up cars for transportation ... and you always hoped that no one would notice that your parents hadn't done the laundry in two weeks.

I got laughed at in 8th grade because I got on the bus crying ... because I had to help my mom kill my cat that morning. My dad wouldn't take it to the vet, and it needed to be put down - so I got to help bury it after I watched her shoot it in the head ... because it was MY cat. So all this crap that you reference about how poorly this woman's day might have gone is just crap - I've been there and I survived and I didn't need to have somebody take me by the hand and scold the people around me for being so insensitive.

I was the brunt of comments about clothing, income, upbringing, and faith because I was raised Catholic in the middle of nowhere Baptist Missouri. So I guess because I've experienced that situation personally, I am a little better versed in this situation than you are, and what is acceptable treatment to the people involved . Wearing your heart on your sleeve is not the best place for it unless you want to get it stabbed, so it's not being a woman that's the issue - it's the action of the individual that I take umbrage.

Sometimes things don't go your way, but you just have to suck it up and soldier on. It's great to have somebody there to offer you a shoulder to cry on; however, you don't run around and decapitate the people who are insensitive because they're people too. They don't know the whole situation in advance, and what your day was like, before they make insensitive comments. It's just part of being human.

People cannot be too sensitive to words. Yes, sometimes hearing things hurt your feelings - but its not like they stabbed you or they punched you or they physically assaulted you. Just like exercising your muscles so that they don't atrophy, you also have to exercise your emotions so that you're not a mental piece of jello that cannot take any type of negative statement without a meltdown.

I still think you should take a couple of teaspoons of Pepto Bismol for your indignation. It seems to be getting worse. Oh, and do a little more emotional exercise ... your ego is getting a little flabby. smile001.gif

1

You have to learn to navigate the murky waters of life. I will try not to pass judgement when a person allow strangers to make her cry. Some people walk around with a "I am victim" sign. There is a lot of brains and hearts to be picked on that story. But while most focus on the assholes bullies I will focus on the "thin skin" because can bring a lot of problems later in the job... Right now she became a distraction. I know is Cruel not to side 100% on her side... but if I am running a business. I need someone that will stand on her own and defend herself and my business if need to. Many ways other than tears to handle it. I just think I didn't raised my daughters to behave like that. I don't think they ever did... as bullies or as a bullied.

Bullying is domination and intimidation. A bully will search for a weakness and use it to cause harm. If we do not protect the vulnerable we are as guilty as the bullies. There is always a reason for low self-esteem and anxiety so to judge without more information is not fair to the young girl.

@Duke Hey bro I am with you on not excusing the bullying behavior. But I spent 20 years in the Navy. I had seen individuals that at any jesus h freaking christ opportunity will see themselves victimize. I have to counsel people and ask them the question... Why you feel victimized? Maybe you been of the lucky ones that never encounter one... just as bullies go rompant thru live looking who to bully next. There are individuals that almost levitate to the possible victim process even when not applies to them. I believe in thick skin... I was raised to fight bullies... I raised my children to fight bullies. But you can not take away the fact that for whatever mental issue in their head or their experience... there is something wrong on wanting to be a victim. If you never met one... hey great, but they are out there. I will be questioning why she have to be in tears? I understand tears are product of emotions, human emotions but I couldn't go to war in my Navy days with a "victim" on my side. I needed a "warrior". In life as my true life companion and witness to my life... I want a "thick skinned warrior" by my side. Not saying bullying is okay. But I think her tear episode been enough distraction to my life.

@Betty I am not accepting the bully as necessary. But based on what you just said... You can dominate me but you can not intimidate me. Grandma said "if you don't like the odds, instead of bitching change the odds against you". She could had stop it from the first innuendo. All I am saying is Don't be a Victim. Learn to Fight Back. Tears are not a Solution. Did she said if the student ever finished training? I just never seen that scenario in my life in which someone was brought to tears.

@GipsyOfNewSpain

I have. Some people have had trauma in their young lives that have lasting effects. These traumas can be psychological, emotional, physical and/or sexual.

When I was younger I met a very timid and shy young woman who at the age of twelve had witnessed the brutal murder of her mother by her father. Even though she was in her mid-twenties when I met her she was still dealing with the trauma. She didn't trust men and kept to herself much of the time. She had been in therapy since the event.

So without knowing what the background is it is unfair to judge another's behavior.

Have you ever seen the Mean Girls Club in action? Bitches on wheels!! They can tear ya to pieces with just a look. They are called mean girls club for a reason. Ever high school has them, and then they move on to the work place and politics. Some guys are just as bad.

@Duke I will not give a bully a pass. I don't believe in "she asked for it" either or getting somebody drunk. But there are other ways besides tears to handle a situation. If Tears is All You Got To Handle a Situation.... there is something wrong with you. As a boy tears was never my first option. I taught my daughters not be either. We make it a joke now but my daughter used to have in her car a baseball bat... the other my phone number. I am with you about the bullying but to you to admit there is "professional" bullying and not admitting the other side of the spectrum the "professional" victim. Once the incident goes thru HR, Do you know how hard is going to be for that lady to be fired? Even with cause. We live in a very distorted world of regulations and laws and I had seen the "unremovable". Milking the cow until they die. I want to be on record... "I am against Bullying." But everything is not always what it seems. And I am sure I would have intervened at the very beginning of the situation. I defended the help of my house at age 6 with my sister age 3 and my grandmother against a rapist. the rapist ended being shot by the police that same day so... I know about bullies and abuse. I also know those who make themselves victims for personal gain. In the navy, on my rate... you come out of school to a ship, you are going to do nothing but clean up until you get qualify. It is not because you are not puertorican, is not because you are not one of my boys, is not because you are not pretty, is not because you are black, is not because you are not a man. It is because as the junior member of the crew, it is what you do, you field day... all day. I was brought up on charges and of course dismissed because most junior female crew did nothing but field day and according to her General Purpose Cleaner smell make her sick. Charges were dismissed at the lowest level. She was expecting privilege for being the only female seaman recruit on my work center... with a female officer and a female chief. And neither of the two seniors females above me never been on a ship before. I was not a bully as I as able to proof. On the circumstances of the group, the instructor, somebody matured should had intervene. ALL I AM SAYING IS NOT EVERYTHING IS WHAT IT SEEMS... AT TIMES. There are different levels of victims. And most situations could be prevented before they happen. Leadership comes from within... the most senior individual in the class could had step in and halted. I am sure many here had seen it and acted on it here. I am not saying let her suffer or being a witness of the show.

@Betty Yet we are prompt to judge the bully. There are a lot of Broken Individual. I remember cases at work where people made comments about clothes. Me being the oldest in the group I intervened because not everybody is lucky to own a wardrobe. I attended classes with people living in a shelter, I had seen extreme poverty. I had seen how hard is once you go down to get back up. Nobody should be bullied or ridicule because appearance or age. All I tried to say is without knowing her background at the first word, she was within the power to address it and resolved instead of letting it escalate to the tears.

@silverotter11 Oh yeah... but you have to let them do it to you. I remember one new job I was the oldest, nobody wanted to do anything with me. Funny... when it is known that you are the only mother effer in the class that ever installed and supported by phone, not only sold it... supported by phone what the class is about, so no term or phrase is new to you... then EVERYBODY WANTED TO BE MY FRIEND. You can't give them license... talk behind my back will never hurt me. Instructors need to take command of the room immediately or if not a student will.

@GipsyOfNewSpain

I do understand what you are saying and in most cases, you would be correct. Some people are fragile and need time to heal and I understand that too.

@silverotter11 Did you see my comment about basic training?
When I was in basic training in the military a drill instructor once told us they often had meetings with the WAC DI's (women's army corp) to trade notes. He said the stories he heard from the female DI's; the 'profanity' and treatment between the women put the guys to shame. I still remember one specific comment.

@GipsyOfNewSpain I understand bullying and was bullied in elementary school (I wasn't part of the "in" crowd). It's not so easy to stand up to bully's especially if there are several.

@Betty Oh very true. Don't we all worry about what kind of humans our children going to be? And there is always that "angel" that won't hurt a fly that is almost unfit to live in a cruel world like ours.

@JackPedigo So true. Never like bullies.

@JackPedigo My training group in the Navy had 2 female companies and 10 male companies. Company 206 was lucky to have a female company as training partner so we took all the classes co-ed. Female by nature believed or not is more terrible. They are oppressed in our society so in an environment without males... Ouch. Also is the way they grow and play... men had "pseudo code of honor", when you kill someone you look at him in the eyes and press the trigger. Dominance. Females do not learn that role. As a member of a Sea Going Staff we were briefed by CIA employees how to act if kidnapped overseas, etc. And give us a lecture on difference between male and female terrorist. Female was the scary one. But enough... I Still Love All Women.

@silverotter11 See the comment by GipsyOfNewSpain. It highlights just what I said.

@GipsyOfNewSpain

Scary females are the worst, they can be so cruel.

@GipsyOfNewSpain

I agree. I worry about my granddaughters and what they will encounter when they become adults. They are such lovely girls that sometimes I wish they would stay young a little longer.

@Betty all you can do is prepared them for the worst and hope for the best.

@GipsyOfNewSpain

I agree. smile001.gif

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Unpopular opinion: bullying isn't necessarily wrong and being weak is certainly not admirable

Gabriel Level 4 Jan 30, 2018

@Duke if only we needed excuses to be mean to someone in this world. Theres lots of people out there who would kill you for no less than your skin colour or lack of belief, do they need excuses too or is it better to man up and bear your suffering?

By it's very definition bullying is wrong. And what is 'strong' and what is 'weak'. In today's society it is not "might makes right" but "right makes might"! Have we become such dumb cretins that we think it is only strength that counts or have we evolved to understand that it is intelligence that counts?

@Duke It seems we have not evolved at all. Look who we elected. He has given a voice to bullying, and so very much more.

@Duke We evolved to be this way, to paint it as some kind of evil with no upside would be foolish, there obviously has to be one just you don't quite understand it yet. Bullying of some description exists everywhere and its not hard to speculate why

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My dad taught me early on that a knuckle sandwich stops any type of physical bullying. Applying it first gives one an advantage. The moment someone touched me in a remotely hostile way, I became a harpy. I don't use this tactic much anymore having evolved & isolated from marauding Visigoths. But it served me well. Now the side long glances from ostracizing females is another can of worms. That can be best addressed by eliminating them from a quest for acceptance.

Mooolah Level 8 Feb 4, 2018
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In the real world people have to put on some leather skin and keep on going on.... there's going to be some small talk every where. You said the girl looked like she had some insecurity issues. If 5 out of 10 in that training class were going to be picked. Then hey!...People will do anything to be one of the 5. That stuff is on TV. The bachelor is a prime example of the survival of the fittest.

Everyone needs a job when they are young. They want to be independent, and out on their own. This is a small town. There are few jobs here. Most of the ones we hire are straight out of high school. Of course everyone needs some leather skin. This comes with life and its lessons. She is young. Everyone has to begin somewhere.

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