Sadly I know many, but I also know many who are struggling against the odds.

@Rugglesby struggling is unfortunately a staple of capitalism. Capitalism has created those odds and a fugazi opportunity to better yourself outlook. Is like a joke I posted of a pyramid worker thinking that if he work hard enough when he die he will have his own pyramid. Fugazi, Fugazi, Fugazi. Grandma used to say... "if you don't like the odds against you, instead of bitching about it, change the fucking odds more to your liking". But capitalism survives because it works constantly changing those odds against you while being consistent on that promise of an opportunity for you.

Sounds like both of you have the same problem...taking care of yourself.

@PhoebeCat It's true but I've always been a "helper" - can't bear to see a friend in trouble or in pain. But the logical approach of giving support and talking them through the potential outcomes and what they need to do only works when you are talking to the head ... as soon as she sees the guy again the heart takes over and she thinks he just needs another chance. I went through a similar issue with an ex so it is particularly important to me that she doesn't make the same mistake I did and waste years of my life ... but I'm learning that sometimes people need to suffer the pain before they really understand. It's just not in my nature to back off but I'm realising I have to to help myself.

@ChrisR
I don’t buy into that ‘heart takes over’ excuse. He gives her something she either needs or wants. Until that changes, she won’t leave him.

@PhoebeCat Well, I was meaning that there is often a conflict inside people between what they know is rationally true (they are with an abusive guy and it probably won't get better) and what they want to believe (that he is just a troubled guy who needs love and he'll change and be better). We see it all the time with the millions who play slot machines or who smoke cigarettes. Hope is cruel and, although it helps us explore the 1% chance that they will change, it lets us waste time with the 99% that don't. I'm almost as guilty as she is - in that I fell for it but did at last break with my ex and I'm becoming better at looking after myself and having a breathing space to keep some distance.

I envy you that.

If you or I or the local gov. and charities give a homeless guy aid are we helping him sustain his predicament?

@Anonbene I guess what I meant is of course there are ways you can be "helpful" but not actually helpful, but of course this is a problem. For instance, my mother lets my brother basically walk all over here. He's 19 and 3 times as irresponsible as I was at his age (and that's not a high bar by any means). She complains about it all the time and never actually does anything about it, and the reason she complains about it is because it impedes her life, and she's always been like that, but notice this isn't about my brother and his life, it's about my mother's and the fact that she lets people hold her back.

That's why I've always decided that my stability comes first, and anything I give, I give freely and without expectation because obligation and expectation aren't actually the point for me. The point is that I was in a position to help and I used my additional resources to do it. If it doesn't work, then I probably don't have enough resources or the right type of resources to fix the problem, so basically give until you can't because the point is to be helpful not to have what you want to happen happen.

So I help my brother in ways as well and will continue to despite his bad choice--for instances, I recently helped him with his FAFSA which he stopped half way through and went home losing most of the progress we made; am I made? No, because I had the time and I gave it to him to do whatever HE wants. But the point is I don't help him if I'm uncomfortable with helping him, if I think it's going to hold me back in some way, but if I most certainly don't need it, and he does, then what he does with it after I give it to him is beside the point because I gave it freely and without expectation, and I don't give it unless I know I can do it this way. I'm not going to give him something and then spend time complaining when he doesn't do what I want. That's impeding my well-being.

@Anonbene I also understand it's easier said when it's not your child, so there is that...

When you say "threw her out" would that be a good way to help the homeless man? Cut off all aid, no dollars no shelters no coffee no sandwiches? In other words would the best thing we as a society could do for the homeless population is to cut off all aid until they figuratively 'come home' ? Get to such a desperate situation they cry uncle and get with the program?

No-I am currently visiting a site member on the other coast where there are homeless everywhere in this great city. My daughter gets stoned every day, wouldn't clean her room, wouldn't work, wouldn't pay rent or help me her cancer survivor mother with garbage, dishes, etc. You have balls to attack me when you know nada about me or my family. I got both of them jobs working for a handicapped van company. Think before you attack. My degree was in Social Work.