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What do you think of this research suggesting religious and spiritual belief are protective against depression?: [psypost.org]

ejbman 7 Feb 6
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I guess it’s like the AA folks putting their trust in a “higher power.” It relieves them of having to take responsibility for their actions since they can just point to the big guy in charge. Lazy people don’t want to think for themselves, they can just do what someone else tells them to do.

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I have been less depressed and suicidal since I left Christianity. For me, I was never good enough. Now, I am ME, and I'm much happier for it.

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OK a discussion I'm having elsewhere (FB) suggested that the underlying phenomenon here might be community support. Consider this article researching depression vs. collectivist cultures: [northwestern.edu]

Yes, yes, yes! Couldn't agree more.

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Don't need to read it, my "Christian upbring" was a diagnosed major contributory factor to my bipolar disorder manifesting itself the way it did.
Years of being terrorised about sin hell and evil spirits haunting you from the age of 4-14 will do that for you.

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I can see it both ways. Mostly, as I have experienced, a persons age upon accepting the belief is a massive factor. The most devout believers have arrived at their person bottom and turned to a faith based system for redemption. In this way the deity is a source of forgiveness and peace. My personal journey, being born and raised baptist, was one of realizing that, according to the bible, I was part of a lineage of scum. A peoples who would never be able to repair a torn relationship, and even after redemption continuously failed to meet the tenants of what it is to be a christian. I may have fooled others, but on the inside I was only human. This never ending string of failures had me turn to drugs and alcohol to patch the pain. NA and AA literally saved my life, and it was a belief in "god" that set me on a path of self destruction.

Naturally there are others who did not face/experience what I have. And I am almost certain there are some who did, yet reacted differently.

I read the whole article and it never mentions spirituality or religious practices. It was a piece about cultures who value group harmony vs those who value individual identity.

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As a descriptive category, "Religion and Spirituality" is so broad and vague as to be almost meaningless. Some attitudes and practices that might fall under that heading could be diametrically opposite from each other in philosophy.

I don't doubt, at all, that some worldviews are more conducive to mental health than others.

It's interesting to me that a majority of non-scholars (in that field) are certain they know what the word "religion" means, when there is no consensus among religious scholars.

skado Level 9 Feb 6, 2019

You make a decent point, and the study also relies on the self-report of the participants and what they take it to mean. It would be interesting to go more granular and unpack exactly which belief statements and practices are associated with the endorsement of "religious or spiritual".

@ejbman
Yes, very.

@skado As another person pointed out elsewhere, it could just be that "religion and spirituality" are cases of the more general phenomenon of "coping mechanisms" so that what the study is showing is that having effective coping mechanisms is protective. I wondered aloud in that discussion whether frequent but non-pathological gamblers would show the same effect.

@ejbman
Very interesting question on the issue of gambling. Yes, I think you have found the "meat" of it, and a very apt phrase, "effective coping mechanisms". I do think that's what it's about. And it wouldn't really matter if the person regarded that mechanism as religious or not, as long as it was "effective".
In my mind (and in many of its dictionary definitions) the word "spirit" just refers to attitude or mood anyway. So even if you use pharma to alter your mood, it could be said, quite correctly I think, to be a "spiritual" intervention. Language!

@skado See a post I just made about how the underlying phenomenon might be community support.

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For some folks who really believe. I can see that working for them.

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I'm too lazy to read the article, but I can see how that is true. Believing that an all powerful being will fix everything "soon" can allow people to shut off a lot of worries. To be honest, it's something I envy sometimes.

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On a personal level, it never helped me. I'm less prone to depression as a non-believer.

Same here. Growing up Catholic hurt my mental health.

@ejbman Yeah for me acknowledging my non-belief actually released me from negative thinking/feelings. Opened the prison gates, if you will.

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In my personal opinion, for what it's worth, if religion is used in any manner or matter regarding any positive affects/effects it has on anyone's life, it is nothing more than a placebo effect. As an A-theist it has to be that since religions and gods are nothing more than myths and fairy tales.

You make an interesting point. However, the placebo effect is strong, and not so easily dismissed. Did you know that some doctors are having success these days prescribing open-label placebos? Even when patients know it is a sugar pill, something about the ritual and accouterments makes it work anyway. Also, consider points made by Daniel Dennett in this book: [amazon.com]

(Note that you can find YouTube presentations given on the book by Dennett where he explains his points).

@ejbman
In a disorder which is psychological in nature to begin with, a treatment that modifies the attitude of the patient may be all that is needed. Whether that is regarded as a placebo effect or not might not be relevant. If it changes the resulting experience of the patient, it has done its job.

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“Future studies may want to use samples with more stable measures across a longer time period to validate our findings. Of course, all results require replication.”

It'll be interesting to see what those "future studies" find.

skado Level 9 Feb 6, 2019
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I think it's quite plausible. My brother and I both suffer from periodic depression and anxiety..and I think that's actually healthy because it makes you move towards change. My sis in law is hard core Christian...and I love her...but she has made remarks that my brother and I have "chosen"..to feel those feelings when they happen and we could "choose" to be happier.

And apparently she doesn't get very stressed about anything because God will provide for her when things go bad....but god never provided for me or my brother...so we just try to help eack other
..even angry..depressed or anxious

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Stranger things have happened trump got elected!

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My life experience tells me quite the opposite. I know personally of people who are deeply religious and severely depressed, I would even say religion has caused their depression, it has actually unhinged them completely. My husband’s uncle tested his faith by drinking rat poison....his reasoning was that God wouldn’t let him die because he was all powerful and could do miracles. Of course he died a painful, lingering death. I know of others too, but that one was the most extreme example.

What a horrific example of faith gone awry! I tend to agree with you. I know my experience growing up Catholic contributed to mental health challenges I faced later (thankfully worked through, now). This research has me frankly shocked. It definitely goes against my views on religions and spirituality.

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Everyone's got an opinion, flimsy though they may be.

Yes, personal opinions are a lot flimsier than scientific research.

And yet here's research. Doesn't our commitment to science and fact require us to hand the religious and spiritual a win if the evidence points their way? I recoil at the thought, but also feel I must acknowledge facts when they emerge. Of course, there's no need to roll over immediately: more research and confirmation is needed. But if the results bear out, what does that mean?

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