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Have we (America) separated church and state? What makes you think that?

I don't think so, but I'd like to hear other opinions, I assume the general answer would be no. I think if we separated church and state there would be no "under God" nonsense or prejudice against gays marriage

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CoffeeChamp 4 Feb 22
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33 comments (26 - 33)

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1

Secular Collation for America is away for non-believers to have an influence in government. The free thought caucus is some what new and needs our support. Freedom from Religion Foundation is apart of the Secular Collation. Both groups have YouTube channels if you would like to get to know these groups.

Secular.org
FFRF.org

1

Like most things it isn't a black and white answer. The true answer is yes, but not nearly enough. And certainly not as separate as the founders intended.

Can you explain why you believe the US has separation of church & state?

1

Can't really comment not being American but when I here the refrain of God Bless America it seems pretty clear to me where the constitution sits!

“God Bless America” was written by a Jewish immigrant in 1918 as a patriotic song concerning WWI and revised in 1938 for WWII. Most do not know the lyrics or the history behind the song, believing it is a Christian hymn.

1

This question reaches into the center of our cultural majority. And the answer is that we have solidly within our majority culture the idea that we are a Christian nation. Even though we have enshrined in our Constitution a separation of Church and State there is no cultural expectation by the majority that there is an actual separation. Some minor legal challenges arise from time to time but the decisions, made in favor or against have not changed our cultural view. And our nation might be a theocracy if it were not for christians being divided into so many denominations, (more than 900 in the US), each with their own belief and all different from one another.
But to answer your second question there will always be prejudice of one sort or another. As much as we want others to be like us they are not. When they are not prejudice takes root. And as for the "under God" it is, on its face, meaningless because the "God" is not identified. It could be any "God" you want it to be. It is just culturally assumed that it is the Christian, Jewish, Muslim "God" Yahweh, (or any one of the other names their God is known by).

0

I think yes, basically. True, the separation isn't total. I don't see how total separation could ever be achieved. Elected officials are affected (in part) by their own religious beliefs.
It brings up the question again, "Does a public bakery have to bake and sell a wedding cake for whomever walks in the door?"
Our local school board (in Georgia, USA) begins each meeting with a Jesus prayer. I guess that's OK for now because everyone in the room is a Christian and there are no children present.

0

There are several issues at :

  1. Political exploitation of people's religious/spiritual beliefs, whether it’s the addition of “under god” the Pledge, the addition of “in god we trust” currency, public prayer before conducting government business, and so on. This allows politicians paint America as “good” so long as we follow a god, while painting anyone who doesn’t have religious/spiritual beliefs, or contrary beliefs, as “bad”.
  2. The collective ignorance of the general populace about what the first amendment says, and what it intends.
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The two things are NOT separated. Look at this little considered fact. A man and a woman need to first apply for and then pay for permission from the State to get married in one of its business franchises, commonly known as a "church"! No priest, pastor, minister or other such "representative of God" may perform a wedding ceremony in that fake house of God if the couple do not first have that State issued document! Why is that? Why does anyone need permission from the State in order to enjoy a beautiful relationship with another? Why do a man and a woman need to be considered to be married by State actors, agents and operators of the legal system/Matrix, before worldly goods can be passed to the other at the time of body death?
Now, here's a question to ponder; Since there was coercion involved in the matrimony (coerced or tricked licensing), how can it be a valid contract? How can it be a valid marriage? ANYTHING which is alleged to be a contract can be vacated for fraud, threat, duress, coercion, mistake, illegality, immorality, impossibility, insanity or minority of age at the least. Anything which violates the five essential elements of a contract, void it. For proof of this, just look up the definitions of Contract and Fraud in Black's Law Dictionary. Don't worry, I'll wait right here until you get back after doing that.
The legal system/Matrix is its own undoing because it violates its own premises for existence in the first place and does so on a daily basis. The facts and logic bear me out here. The legal system/Matrix is supposed to be against crimes like fraud, theft, murder, etc, but yet it commits those very crimes every day that it's in operation!! Have you ever thought about that before? I doubt it very much. But logicians such as myself do!

        Randy

The reason for a marriage license from the state was initially to prevent interracial and interdenominational marriages. Missouri’s laws permit secular weddings performed by a judge. The law also permits two people living together without being married, though Missouri has no “common law marriage” statute.

As to your question to be pondered, your initial premise may be wrong. Because a civil ceremony is permitted under the law, one is not forced to be married in a church, synagogue, mosque, or any other “holy” place of worship. In addition, “churches” such as the Universal Life Church and the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster are recognized by the state, permitting secular and non-religious weddings.

@SageDave It wasn't to prevent miscegination, the marriage license was put in to regulate it. Where did I say that one is forced to be married only in a State owned and operated "church"? For one of the employees of the federal government owned and operated 501 ☕ (3) Organization in the IRC, known as a Priest/Minister/Pastor to perform a marriage ceremony, a State issued Marriage License must be bought first. Otherwise, said employee of the State risks being fired from his/her job! There ARE religious organizations which do not sell themselves for 30 pieces of silver in order to operate. But you cannot make a tax deduction for your gifts to them. But even they probably require a Marriage License to be presented to them due to fear of being persecuted by the State if they do not.
Go and tell your insurance carrier or the company you work for to include your chosen life mate on your policy with them without proof of a marriage falling under what they define as a legal (not lawful, mind you!) marriage, and see what they have to say. Unless there have been some drastic changes made since the 1980s, they will tell you to take a long walk on a short pier!
Regardless, even the smallest amount of fraud involved with anything voids it completely. Logic bears this out, if you can think it through.

Randy

0

I couldn't give a "yes, or no" to the poll.
Yes, in that there have been some strides in that seperation., but yet no, because there is always some religious nut with a political background trying to sly by the constitution.

I do believe that it will eventually get to a point where church and state are devided, but it will take baby stepps, and a LOT of court battles.

I just hope to see it in my lifetime.

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