Happy?

@chazwin Extremely, what’s your point?

I think the death penalty needs to be less buried in bureaucracy and ritual. If we are going to kill someone lets make it raw and quick. A guillotine or bullet to the back of the head. The cost I feel is all about pretending its not what it is.

@Quarm I'm saying the exact opposite:
If we decided to put someone to death, we'd have to know for sure the intracacies of the case. Were there good reasons why the crime was committed? Was there an underlying mental illness? Perhaps it was done in the blind rage of temporary passion? Did the perp's upbringing come into plsy?
OR was it done with premeditated calculation, the criminal knowing it's wrongfulness and doing it anyway, purely for self-serving purposes without regard for the rights of others? Did this wrongdoer see himself (or herself) as more important than everybody else, and thus free to do, well, anything, whatever the consequences for those of less importance?
All kinds of considerations are to be studied.
So to just to put someone to death quickly, to disguise the immorality of putting someone to death at all, defeats the purpose: to do justice.
Of course, if the consensus is, it is inherently immoral, then it shouldn't be done at all.
Your sarcasm is unbecoming.

@Storm1752 I was refering to what we do after all due diligence to prove guilt has been established. Once we are sure the killing is just it should be brutal and quick. Someone who chooses to be an executioner should have the conviction and certainty that what he is doing is just. It should not be buried under layers of illusion attempting to shield us from what it is. Immoral? Of course it is. Its horrific. Killing should never be considered moral or right. At its best it is necessary for the safety of us. But it still is not a good thing or something that should ever be seen as routine or easy.

@Quarm A good, reasonable answer BUT if it's immoral, it shouldn't be done. Defending ourselves IS moral. I'm for giving the criminal a yummy feast laced with a tasteless, fast-acting poison.

@Storm1752 I agree in theory but then I think if progress is to be made in human conflict resolution we must face the subjective nature of morality. In war we commit mass murder quite often of civilians and call them causalities or acceptable losses. Irrelevant to the cause of the war or justification there are always innocent victims who if we are honest are murder victims. The firebombing of Tokyo and similar events were nothing less then atrocities and yet we consider WWII a clean war. (Not you specifically but that is its portrayal I think in popular lore.) My point is immorality of some kind is intrinsic to human action and the best thing we can do is mitigate it as much as possible, be honest about it and never bury it in sanitized language or ritual. We must face our demons or they will grow in the dark and in time destroy us.

@Quarm I happen to think a lot of immoral things happen in war. Hiroshima anf Nagasaki were immoral. Carpetbombing Dresden and other German cities was. Lots of things.What does thst have to do with the death penalty? Nothing.

I failed to see what good killing anyone would do?

It costs more to give someone the death penalty than life in prison. They have pointed this out for decades. Pay attention.

Brilliant post

@Amisja Thank you, I get lucky once in a while. I stole part of my argument from the lyrics of Elvis Costello's song Let Him Dangle, a song against the death penalty.

If we are going to hang people for stealing a few tools then maybe we should also hang people who consistently lead them into temptation.

That is as stupid as anything I have heard in my 71 years. No need to respond. This is really enough stupid for one day.

My schizophrenic sister shot and killed a boyfriend in her 20s. She lamented often...that she was going to Hell, for killing that guy. She died at 76 last year! She was a tortured soul, (being witness to your only sister in this state, is another kind of lifelong living sadness).

Uauuu that´s a radical point a view. No mercy at all. This is one of the things I hate in US.So may innocent have been killed there

@Freedompath that is sad for both. So sorry

@margarida thank you.

@Freedompath I do hope that anyone at all that reads my remarks here know that I am responding to what is known as "the death penalty." I am in no way saying or trying to say that people who have killed someone should themselves be killed. There are always extenuating circumstances.

@DenoPenno I understood. Unless your sister or some other family member ends up where my sister did...it is hard to imagine the pain that I felt! A family lost their son, and my sister did it and could have been put down as well! And, we had made great efforts to find help for her and we were told, ‘until she does something, there is nothing that can be done,’ ...the system may pretty much work like this now.

@Freedompath So sorry to hear this

@Freedompath Would you be happy to have killed her yourself? If not why would you out that burden on us all as members of society?

@chazwin your questions makes no sense to me. I have never wanted to kill others...not even my sister! ...’out that as a burden to society,’...surely you know that ‘society,’ has inacted laws that we all must live by...and also the punishments when those laws are broken! Why would you blame me, as ‘putting the burden on society,’ for my schizophrenic sister? This makes no sense to me and I find it very insulting to boot!

@chazwin I am not putting any burdens on anyone.

@DenoPenno On the subject of burdens. If YOU want to bring back the death penalty, then you shall be placing that burden on others to do the killing.

@DenoPenno, @Freedompath No offense was meant. It was hypothetical. The case of your sister she deserves no punishment for her crime, crime though it was. I understand the burden of mental health as my own brother is also profoundly schizophrenic. Thankfully I live in a country where guns are not readily available, and so my brother's outbursts tended to do himself harm rather than others.

Evil is a medieval religious concept with no place in the modern world. Some people think that those that believe such nonsense do not deserve to be listened to.

@chazwin "Evil" is in the behavior of those who inflict harm upon others without regret, nor remorse.

@Jacar Thank you mr. Dictionary. No evil is a religious concept, and meaningless to atheists.

That is nonsense

Even if true what right does the state have to kill? As by your own admission these people are acting under The compulsions of a damaged brain.

@chazwin As i have written elsewhere, too many innocent people are falsely imprisoned. Hence, no executions.
I also think every inmate should be required to work. And lots of requirements, in anticipation of life on the outside.

@Amisja I have noticed that you do not research before you spew. What I posted above is based in studies, of inmates in the US and canada, made over decades.
I am 66 years. I learn something new everyday. But on agnostic i do not post anything that i have not researched to find multiple sources, and opposing views.
Psychopathy is a brain mutation that eliminates empathy from the person's emotional responses and understandings. At this time, this cannot be changed.
To learn more about psychopathy/sociopathy, start with Doctor Hare's seminal work, "The psyoohpaths among us."

@Jacar There are serious problems with making inmates work. Both America and China use inmates as a cheap source of Labour and this has the effect of wrecking the economic prospects of the poorest in society by taking jobs from them and lowering wages on the outsife. Additionally cases have come to light cartridges are the beneficiaries of companies that uses h Labour and have a tendency to give too long sentences or convict on slight evidence. In China the prisons are filled for that reason. In the USA though thought wrong the practice is !it's common than you would imagine.

@Jacar Why make a personal attack? What do you think I do for a living?

@Amisja Not a personal attack. Just a comment about how often you respond with a few negative words. As above. Which could be construed as a personal attack on me.

@Amisja, @chazwin Letting people do nothing is not good for them, mentally and physically.
This is bad for them and for us. I have details about how this can be reasonably accomplished.

@Jacar Tell that to the priest

@Jacar You make a big mistake thinking you are older and therefore smarter than others.