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Alright, I have to earn a place in the queue. Fuck god, fuck nationalism, fuck racism, fuck anti-intellectualism, fuck climate denial. I like people who like people and who want to find a way forward in this society. I'm not an atheist, I'm anti-theist. Religion has caused too many problems for too long, and I want to be free of it. I want to find a better way of life, and especially a better way of death. How many non-believers out there are still looking for comfort at the end of life? I don't want to be a death-bed convert. How do you imagine the end without salvation?

By Patrick4
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25 comments

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4

I like to focus more on ensuring that I’m leaving wonderful memories for my children, as they'll be the only ones to remember anything anyway.

First legitimate response I've seen so far, thank you.

@Patrick your responses are pretentious.
It seems that you assume because you may having that nagging question.

Most of us here do not.
You keep pushing everyone like you know differently.

There is no higher power man
Therefore no afterlife
Therefor no salvation

Even if there was I wouldn’t worry
I’m not trading my dignity to pray for some fucking dick head in the sky running an ant farm
Fuck that
I’ll hang in Hell with the hookers and the cool people

4

Hopefully, quietly and peacefully in my sleep.

icolan Level 7 Apr 12, 2019

Hopefully, absolutely agree with you there. But not good for my question, because it kind of demands that you have some inkling that death is at your bedside...what do you think?

@Patrick Even if I know death is coming, even if I am railing against that death, fighting for every second, I am still not going to pray to non-existent deities, attempt to bargain with them, nor seek 'salvation' from them.

If any of the deities made up by humanity are real, they will have to accept me for who I am, and if they choose to punish me for it there is nothing I can do except go to that punishment knowing that I am morally superior to them.

If they want me to believe I need evidence, repeatable, testable, scientific evidence. If they want worship they need to prove that they are worthy of that worship. While I have not studied all of the gods we have created, the ones I have are a mishmash of contradictory attributes, and for the most part embody some of the worst traits of humanity. They are certainly not worthy of worship, reverence, or anything else except being dumped on the trash heap of history.

Edited

@icolan You say, "Even if I know death is coming, even if I am railing against that death, fighting for every second, I am still not going to pray to non-existent deities, attempt to bargain with them, nor seek 'salvation' from them."
In my opinion, that is a legitimate answer to the question in the post, thank you. I agree with most everything you've said. (I cringe at stating that I am morally superior to anyone, let alone a theoretical god.) My response to such a being would also be that, I made my choices using the critical faculties I was given, I did my best to find the truth, if I'm to be punished for that than so be it.
You are awesome, thank you.

@Patrick "My response to such a being would also be that, I made my choices using the critical faculties I was given, I did my best to find the truth, if I'm to be punished for that than so be it." <-- That is what would make you morally superior to any being that would punish you for exercising those critical faculties.

4

Salvation won't be on my mind, hoping I'm not in pain, suffering, or alone probably will be.

I hope so too, you really think it won't be on your mind though? Not in the least? Uff, you're hard core. Thanks.

@Patrick Not the first time I've been called hard core, but it's usually been about another subject or other times being called hard-headed.

@Patrick , I think you are referring to the actual dying part. Most of us are not looking forward to that. But the being dead part is not a problem for me. Euthanasia should be legal for terminal patients who want it.

3

Salvation from what?

IamNobody Level 8 Apr 13, 2019
3

I actually agree with your sentiments particularly your second sentance ....and will also note that--- without seeing your facial expressions and hearing you voice these thoughts out loud--- I can see how some people might have taken your comments in some way that you did not intend. Sounds to me like you are on your own "journey" right now and are questioning everything. Keep questioning. smile009.gif

Lavergne Level 7 Apr 13, 2019

sorry about the typo's - the cat is sitting on my lap as I try to type hahahahahha

3

Hold on there Tex, your getting way to upset. Chill your not going to hell. Just smile and keep working to make things better ?

Jk1960 Level 6 Apr 12, 2019

What makes you think I'm talking about hell?

@Patrick it is quite apparent you have made your own Hell right here & now. Sorry for you.....

3

It's just over.

What about that part where it's not just over? Like, right before it's over? When you are finally struck with the dread certainty that everything you've ever known is about to end and your existence, one way or the other is fucking ending? You find no anxiety there? Are you so sure that your existence as stardust is guaranteed? That's cool man, but I'm not quite there yet.

@Patrick , I'm certain we are star stuff. Totally comfortable with it. Being a slave for eternity to a petty dictator would be far worse IMO.

@Patrick I've been fine with death since long before I was fine with living. Dreading something that's inevitable seems like a paramount waste of time.

3

Salvation from what? I’m my own master. I don’t imagine the end at all for I am here right now.

darthfaja Level 7 Apr 12, 2019

That means you just don't think about it right?

@Patrick I don’t think about it because it doesn’t exist.

@darthfaja Fair enough.

2

I have no fear of death and no expectation of an afterlife. I'm all good.

The Pope says Aliens are our saviors. I'm comfortable with that or reincarnation. Noboby has come back from the spirit world to give us the correct answer.

I don't fear death, just don't want to be there when it happens.

2

I feel similarly. Except, I know I will not be a death bed convert and I know that death is not scary.

I nearly died a few years ago and your brain takes over to calm you. It was wonderfully serene and so peaceful that I was mildly disappointed to survive.
My only concern, in that moment, was for my children.

Other than that...yeah, I am with you, "Fuck god, fuck nationalism, fuck racism, fuck anti-intellectualism, fuck climate denial."

Wow, "mildly disappointed to have survived", that's neat. I've always hoped we have some mechanism to cope with the trauma of being present at the moment of our demise. Of course, I'm also always hoping that my psychological maturity is keeping pace with my biological reality, (and obviously that's not the case). I don't feel like I can really imagine that moment, let alone the non-existence that follows.
And you mention your children, I admire that. I have a daughter, I would hope that she be the last thing on my mind.

@Patrick I assure you that she will be and it was not scary.

2

We hear the unseen branch crack and fear floods us with instinct. It's our biology, our dna, our psychology, it's why we survive. I am a MN Vikings fan, so I learn to embrace the suck. I am human, so I learn to embrace fear. The positive power of fear! If you're interested in beefing up your anti-theistic position, reading Christopher Hitchens death bed memoir Mortality isn't a unique account of dying, but it's the best I've read. If for no other reason, I love him for that book.

avron Level 5 Apr 13, 2019
2

Sounds like you still believe in the Christian god and hell fire. Too bad. Must be scary to think about death for you, then. Since energy can't be created or destroyed, at death we'll rejoin the universal energy and likely be reincarnated, if we choose to do so.

2

Peace.

linxminx Level 7 Apr 12, 2019
2

Be careful of your words. How can you FUCK GOD, when you can't find him.

Lol.

Just a little too literal there friend!

We should start a go fund me to go find god. He must be lost we haven’t seen him in years

1

I'm prepared for death. I keep a collection of prescription drugs to make my death as pleasant and painless as possible.
So when the cash runs dry; when I get too weak to get up stairs; too blind to read; or too infirm to wipe my own arse - I'm out of here.
What's your problem?

chazwin Level 5 Apr 14, 2019

Well, right off the bat, I don't have a collection of prescription drugs. (Yet)

1

I believe we flicker out like a candle and nothing remains except memories in the minds of people we knew and loved. Thus there's no issue of an afterlife. I don't think we continue on any more than does a candle flame.

I have heard that living memory only lasts three generations. That is, that you will remember your mother and grandmother, but it is unlikely that you will remember your great-grandmother, and almost certain that you won't have any memories of a great-great-grandmother. I am happy to live on in the memory of my child, and strive now to make sure I am remembered well. I wish you the same, thank you.

1

I knew a Mansion in the sky or Mormons give you a planet with 33 hot babes on it. All sounded too good to be true.

1

Not a fair question I guess, but it got me up and running on this site. I still suspect that some of you also wonder in your darkest mind and heart. I just hope I don't. Thanks for all the replies.

Patrick Level 4 Apr 12, 2019

Check out Unitarian Universalism. Many of them, the ones who do believe in some kind of afterlife, believe there is no hell and that everyone gets into heaven. That is a doctrine that came from the Universalists, who merged their denomination with the Unitarians in 1961.

1

Quiet

mzbehavin Level 8 Apr 12, 2019

I love you, and I wish you peace.

1

I don't.

KKGator Level 9 Apr 12, 2019
1

It won't even be on my mind.

Just like that huh? Not even a remote little thing way back in your mind, just kind of nagging a teensy little bit...?

@Patrick To the same extent I'll be thinking about what Ganesha has in store for me when I die.

@Piratefish
I know you aren't looking to Ganesha. I'm sorry, I was reactionary. Thank you for your comments.

Edited

@Patrick If I'm reading things correctly, it may be worth you knowing some people on this site were never of a faith. Others came from a moderate version, such as myself, but you're going to find variation in whether we have any fear of hell remaining. Others came from fundamentalists versions of faith and there, too, you're going to find variation.

@Patrick It's all good. Just my way of saying that I won't be at all concerned about ancient mythology and fairytales when it is my turn to die. Any more than I currently lie awake at night worrying about what Santa Claus is going to bring me on December 25th. smile002.gif

@LimitedLight I oftentimes envy those who were never indoctrinated into a faith. I am always curious as to how it would effect my perception of the world if I had that ethos, instead of the one I labor under now. If I could go back now and re-write my post, I would omit the word "salvation", and leave it at "comfort". Thank you for the kind advice.

@Patrick I know what you mean. I was raised in a very religious family; son of a pastor and went to Christian schools through high school. I was thoroughly indoctrinated by the time I was 18. But I have used an open mind and education to figure things out for myself now, and I am extremely confident that religions are purely a man-made phenomena. I am not at all worried about what will happen to me after I die. I suspect it will be exactly the same as the billions of years before I was born - I won't know anything, and I won't care, either.

0

You identify yourself in your profile as an agnostic, an atheist, and an anti-theist. Despite this, you seem to still think there's some kind of afterlife awaiting you in death. This makes no sense. You either hold to the claims of religion or you don't.

Which is it?

I guess I would say I hold no claim to religion, and I can still be uncertain as to what is and what isn't? To the point, without believing in god, I can still have a whole brain full of questions about the nature of life and death, and I can still be curious as to how other people approach it. I think it's rather important actually. You disagree?

@Patrick You believe what you believe. I find your approach to be confused but if it works for you more power to you. Sooner or later you'll accept atheism in full and the fog will clear.

@Sgt_Spanky Yeah, I'm confused, always have been. It's the people who are certain that frighten me. Thank you for the comments.

0

Wow, you think we want you to be downright judgemental & nasty to "earn a place in the queue"? Huh.

If I was judgemental and nasty it wasn't my original intent, but I may have gotten a little riled. I apologize.

@Patrick I got riled reading it. Your "enthusiasm" is a bit contagious.

@Patrick if you cannot see what it Clearly was 8ntended to be, I doubt your judgement AND your veracity

0

I like people who don't like people. You lost me after that.

0

I may as well have posted this on Facebook.

Patrick Level 4 Apr 13, 2019

You been reading Dale Carnegies book then ?. How to win friends and influence people.

We suck because you aren’t good with all of this yet? You’re the one with the questions about the end. I came to terms with that when I was a teenager. It doesn’t even warrant time to think about anymore

So go ahead and post this on Facebook for the sheep to give you the answer you want to hear so you can feel good about yourself and your ridiculous fears.

Edited
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