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So unusual question and massive controversial question here but what do you all think about vaccines? Specifically the excipient list and ingredients listed on the inserts? Mainly how does everyone think that the foreign DNA and RNA chains from fetal cell lines are affecting the people that have taken the vaccines with them in them? Please do not post your vaccine status this is strictly opinions and ideas there is no reason to make it personal.

KimAndBri 4 Apr 27
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21 comments

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9

It's a no brainer. If we can't put our trust in science we may as well be christians.

That is true and we should trust the science. I am asking about some of the data that the FDA has in their manufacturers inserts about the ingredients and finished product contaminants of human DNA and RNA being present in vaccines. I am asking about speculation of what those human DNA and RNA fragments could mean for the people they are injected into. I'm not saying vaccines are bad just that they are a pharmacuetical and should be respected as such. We should make ourselves aware of the potential negative outcomes of using a pharmacuetical product as well as the positive ones. After all even asprin can come at a price and so can even penicillin. My mother is lethally allergic to penicilin and has a bleeding disorder so she can't take either one of these miracle drugs that save billions they would kill her. I am simply pointing out that we should consider all aspects of every product we take in or utilize.

8

Opinions are just that, opinions. They should never be confused or conflated with facts, which is why we are having this problem with the vaccination rate falling alarmingly. Uninformed, and even blatantly ignorant people, some with an agenda, are peddling dangerous lies about vaccines. This is causing deaths and childhood illnesses which we believed had been almost eradicated, but are back again and in epidemic proportions. We must take the proper scientific evidence and listen to our doctors when they tell us that these vaccines are safe to give our children. These people don’t have an agenda, they are health professionals and scientists. This is too critical an issue to listen to any other anecdotal data, it is guesswork and assumption at best. Vaccinate, and do it now...that is my advice to anyone who is wavering, it could just save the life of your child and the lives of countless other children.

Well yes but I am asking opinions on the DNA effects as those have not been studied and there isn't data to support anyones opinions it is a theoretical conversation. The only fact involved is the presence of DNA in the vaccines. Everything beyond that is theory and or opinions.

@KimAndBri I don’t speculate...I only deal in facts, the only opinion I have is that we should refrain from concluding anything without being fully conversant of the facts. I have no opinion on this subject, other than to believe that the risk of not having the general population vaccinated outweighs any other concerns.

6

There is currently a minor measles epidemic in the UK because of children not being vaccinated.
Measles can be a killer. I read a very moving tale by the late children's author Roald Dahl who's daughter appeared to be recovering from measles then suddenly contracted encephalitis and died within a day.
People who do not have their children vaccinated are stupid and it should be compulsory.

Cumpolsery would include those with cancer and genetic mutations and severe allergies to ingredients and therefore would kill those who should not have them. How does that help anyone? Sorry but nothing is one size fits all. Most people do likely benefit from vaccination but there are those in the minority that can not have them and making them compulsery does not account for those who can't take them and it sacrifices them. So why would you want to essentially kill several thousand children to protect other children from illness? I mean I get wanting everyone who can be vaccinated to get vaccinated but everyone being forced to is a lot too much and takes away our basic human rights. I must respectfully disagree with compulsery vaccination though I am completely for willful vaccination.

@KimAndBri Obviously those with other health issues who would be harmed by vaccines would be exempt. Our health service is designed to cure people not kill them.

@Moravian Actually if they aren't thought of at the time the bills are being written and proposed into laws and passed into action then they can be forgotten and have been in many cases in history with other cumpulsary laws. Wording is very tricky but I agree over all those who would come to great harm or be at risk of death should be exempt. I still don't agree with taking away peoples right to decide though.I feel education on the subject is far better than forcing things on and into people.

3

Vaccinations are absolutely necessary for public health. They should never be optional unless there is an imminent health danger from the failure to vaccinate the individual.

Agreed.

3

This is why vaccination important. Hasn't really hit the headlines because it's Madagascar, not NYC, but 1,200 people dead, mostly children.
[google.com]

3

Saw a reasoned discussion with two professors in opposite camps of obligatory vaccinations. The one for obligation thought that it should be possible to achieve 95% vaccination but did raise the dilemma of what happens when you reach the point that the vaccines become the problem.
The one against obligation also saw 95% as achievable but said it was better to achieve it through education.
To me this acknowledges that vaccines carry a risk but one that is to a point better than the risks of not having one. How the vaccines are made and their contents is something that has to be continuously scrutinised and tested by those with appropriate skills. It is right that the contents are listed for transparency and such lists will forever be used by anti-vaxxers to create distrust. Trust in a connected world is ever harder and especially with drug and chemical industries that have been caught cheating and lying leading to unnecessary deaths, only education without political interference can create a path to trust.

That is awesome I would love to watch something like that.

3

Started with falsely published data doctor who submitted report lost license propagated by morons

3

I don't think it's an issue...

3

You are talking about generational, long term monitoring. I do think about alterations at a genetic level that we all consume and the passed on effects to future generations; vaccines, GMO food, GMO feed consumed by stock, fluids. It is why monitoring is so important where you are not so much looking for exact figures but instead trends. For this to work you need the base line, measurements before whatever genetically modified substance we injest. We need large sample groups.
I have little faith that the corporations that develop GMOs do this monitoring as they would see it as a waste of resources that is more likely to show unexpected flaws than benefits.

GOSs are a totally different issue. they are all about maximising profits for agribusiness and are totally unnecessary.

@Moravian when bottom of the food chain genes are modified, altered or artificially evolved, I feel those organisms that consume these new organisms may also alter.
GOS's......does that involve gene modification?

Cannot see anyone paying for that. But the industry has paid Universities for not doing studies on GMOs despite the only projects that have run being very low budget and easily swamped by PR against them. Tobacco industry being the most notorious example (not GMO). Such incidents do increase distrust and public scepticism, and only legislation to protect independent research from industry pressure can change that.

2

Vaccinations are life-savers for everyone. Diseases like polio, smallpox, shingles, mumps, etc, have all proven controllable because of vaccines. If you don't want to use them, kindly move to an atoll in the Pacific and stay there.

@ToolGuy (GASP! FLUTTER EYELIDS!) Really? 🙂

2

Vaccinate. I'm of the herd immunity group. There are people that cannot (ie age) be vaccinated that are protected when vaccination levels are high enough. This all stems from the war on government. This is not to be a critique on US governance-but this problem has now spread around the globe. And I don't think that ALL governments are bad. People put anti-virus software on computers for the same reason. You do it not only for you-but for those around you.

Vaxx IS NOT VAGUE....NOT ABOUT FASCISM nor herds....exactly what is in the precise dose is the main question here....you are correct some people should not be vaxxed ....age varies from newborn to centenarians....live enzyme defects is probably the key co-factor why some are harmed by vax and others same age weight sex tolerate and benefit from vax

2

What do you mean by this; "Mainly how does everyone think that the foreign DNA and RNA chains from fetal cell lines are affecting the people that have taken the vaccines with them in them"
And where are you getting this from?

I was wondering the same.

I mean that according to the FDA manufacturers inserts many vaccines are made using aborted fetuses as a growth medium and all of the ones that use fetal tissue contain DNA and RNA strands with in the finished product accoding to the FDA's own clinical trials absent an inert placebo study group but still worth reading. I am wondering what everyones thoughts on the potential effects of the DNA and RNA remanents being injected into people would or could be.

@KimAndBri You are not being clear. It sounds like nonsense. Can you cite any of this?

@chazwin Yes here are the excipient lists.
[cdc.gov]

@chazwin [vaccinesafety.edu]

@chazwin the vaccine safety website is the web site that the FDA sends you to for manufacturers package inserts.

@chazwin I could post all the inserts as well in link form but they are all at least a dozen pages long and there are a whole lot of them. So if you want more information I would be happy to post the links but if not I will just stick to the excipient lists. I'm so glad no one has gotten all nasty or accusing in this post. Thank you for the intellectual questioning I know it is supposed to be expected in a group like this one but I haven't found it prior to this group.

@KimAndBri You can post as many pages as you like, but you will still have to say what exactly you are objecting too, and where that objection relates to what you are posting.

But, sadly as we stand at the moment, your statement dies not even parse, let alone make any sense.
I repeat quote; "Mainly how does everyone think that the foreign DNA and RNA chains from fetal cell lines are affecting the people that have taken the vaccines with them in them"

@chazwin I'm not objecting to anything. I am asking opinions and to discuss theoretically about how this particular ingredient could potentially affect those of us whom have recieved the injections.

@chazwin Also it is not a statement it is a theoretically posed question so I'm not sure how that makes no sense.

2

Is there any evidence of harm?
Not reactions but actual lasting harm.
Your asking for opinion not facts is that honest

That is correct. I am asking for opinions there can't really be facts aside from the presence of the DNA in the vaccines as no studies have been done. The question is theoretical.

No studies have really been done on this specifically so we do not know if there is evidence or not. That is one reason it is a great topic for speculation.

1

There's currently a measles outbreak in ultra-orthodox Jewish communities in Brooklyn and upstate New York -- not necessarily because they're anti-vaccine but because they received a scare about the relation of vaccines to autism, and because they are also a very closed-off secular community, they haven't had access to news that debunks this. So my feeling is, do your research and don't listen to claims that just scare people.

1

Anti-vaccine people are selfish idiots. Un-vaccinated people should be banned from schools and day cares.

Measles Outbreak: Washington State Senate passes vaccine bill in rebuke to anti-vaxxers:

[washingtonpost.com]

How does this open a conversation? This comment seems more like an attack on others than a window into anything with any depth to it.

What about people whom have allergies to ingredients or whom have genetic mutations that do not allow them to process the vaccines in the same manner as is anticipated to be average? What of the immunocompromised that are ineligable medically? You aren't being very open ended or thoughtful in your response just short and cut and dry black and white. I'm not sure how this kind of retoric is productive? Please explain your thinking a little more in depth.

@KimAndBri

Attacking people is against Agnostic.com guidelines. I don't owe you or anyone else an explanation.

7 Reasons Anti-Vaxxers are Total Idiots

[dailywire.com]

@ToolGuy

Exactly.

1

A lower death rate and longer lives are due in a large portion to vaccines. Vaccinate and save lives. Folks who don't can go live in their own little, segregated, and portioned off from the rest of us. They make people sick and spread disease to the most vulnerable.
Side note: whenever I see an anti vaxxer at a fast food joint, I want to ask, "Why are industrial vaccines for animals okay with you?"

1

There are many kinds of vaxxers including varied formulae for the same purpose.....how vax is made and precise contents SHOULD NOT BE SECRET FROM ANYONE as every patient must have the right to know with 100% INFORMED CONSENT....PARENTS protecting their children from meds profiteering

0

Look up polio. Decide if you'd rather have polio or take a vaccine to keep it away. Trying to void fear-mongering people at all costs. Better yet, look up Ebola

lerlo Level 8 May 30, 2019
0

To be clear I am very much for vaccination of those who want to be vaccinated or choose to be through education or informed consent. I am only against forcing people into taking anything into their bodies against their wishes or will. I do agree vaccines have been over all a positive invention and resource for us all in general. I am also against vaccinating those whom would be seriously harmed or killed by vaccines and feel we should test people for contraindications prior to vaccination such as genetic mutations and other similar things as these tests would give us the information needed to protect those who would be harmed or killed by the jabs from them and at the same time allow us to ease the minds of parents in fear of these things happening to their children and reassure them that the shots are the best thing for their family. That would fix both problems. Brief education and protection for all in need in both directions.

Here's the problem with that. If someone doesn't vaccinate their child and sends them to public school, they have a risk of picking it up or spreading it to others. So it's one thing to choose not to be vaccinated, but it's another if it's going to effect someone else. True, some people may be allergic to certain vaccines, but there are alternatives.

@bleurowz As well, the odds of something bad happening is so great and yet the odds of being affected by not being vaccinated is so small...1/1000...people take greater chances driving their children to work and yet still choose not to take a chance with vaccinating them...the public health is worth the risk if you want to be part of society...it is a price for living among each other...

@bleurowz How would they do this if the testing and education take place during infancy and as toddlers. They wouldn't be in school yet?? Also infants are at the greatest risk of reactions and with the diseases and are one of the vulnerable groups we are meant to protect by being vaccinated. So I'm not sure how testing and education are not viable solutions to the problem with the increase in antivaccination movements? Do we really need to abandon our human rights and revok the right to bodily autonomy to get our rates up to a protective level? Also is it really a good idea to hand over our bodies to the government and the law to allow them domain over our bodies in order to avoid the difficulty of convincing others to comply with something for public safety? I respectfully must disagree it gives the government far too much power to allow our human rights to be given up in exchange for possible protection from illnesses. Force would only be met with resistance and outcries and mobs and fighting and other horrible incidences education is more subtle and easily accepted. We have seen it before with the bans on alcohol a few decades ago. We have a lower percentage of drunks via education than we did when alcohol was illegal. Look to historical graphs to confirm this don't just take my word on it. Also look at the war on drugs how well that is working out our prisons are bursting with drug addicts but informing people on how the drugs affect their bodies has very recently began to slowly chip away at the monumental drug problem our war on drugs has created. So I don't see force as a reasonable solution only one of despiration and as humans we should be above that kind of despirate action of sacrificing the weak for the good of the group.

@KimAndBri See my separate response above about the measles outbreak. I agree people have a right to not to be vaccinated. However, the public has a right not to be vulnerable to diseases because someone else decided not to get vaccinated. I don't believe in forcing injections, but anyone who may be a public health threat should not be allowed to expose themselves or be exposed to anyone who may be vulnerable. Unvaccinated people who don't get an illness themselves can still be a carrier.

0

Im completely confused by your reference to fetal tissue. Could you explain more?

MCR-5 is one of the batches of aborted fetuses used in vaccine manufacturing I think this batch is from an aborted fetuses kidneys but I'm not certain. I do know however that according to manufacturers inserts that many vaccinations are produced using fetal tissue as a growth medium for human specific viruses.

@KimAndBri Nothing you have posted supports this.

0

Vaccinate. Foreign DNA or RNA should pose no greater risk than foreign proteins.

Vulnerable infants must be tested for liver enzymes birth defects....this co factor explains why most humans tolerate vax while others suffer horrible reactions such as induced symptomatic severe autism

@GreenAtheist I accept the retraction of the autism induced vaccine study.

@itsmedammit I know nothing about such a study....I only know that newborns have a variety of liver function enzyme abilities....from zero to strong like mine and my daughters all of us are vaxxed....but my great nephew was born in Blank Children's Hospital one of the few who test most newborns for liver function beyond visual jaundice exam....he needs daily injections just to digest his food AND MEDICALLY all vaccines are contraindicated for him....we will reduce the epidemic of autism by testing liver function to prevent high fevers and brain damage in toddlers

@GreenAtheist Vaccines have not been shown to cause autism.

[cdc.gov]

There is no autism epidemic. There are people who wish to sell books that would like to sell you on that idea. They probably have smoe swamp land for you in Florida, too.

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