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Pope's Comments - A Reality Check

There are a lot of people, including some here, who quote endlessly about the Pope's comments on atheists, as evidence of his progressive views. Well, I've grown tired of hearing it. So here is some references about it:

"Correction: Atheists ARE going to Hell, says Vatican":

[newhumanist.org.uk]

"Never mind Pope Francis's conciliatory words – the Catholic Church wants you to know that eternal damnation does lie in store..
...With the Pope's conciliatory mass generating headlines around the world, Vatican spokesman Father Thomas Rosica has moved quickly to quash rumours that a life reading Richard Dawkins and not going to church provides a route to the pearly gates."

"Not so fast: Vatican says Pope Francis got it wrong, atheists do go to hell"
[washingtontimes.com]

"The Vatican has issued a new statement running counter to Pope Francis‘ recent suggestion that good deeds can earn atheists entrance to heaven.
The Rev. Thomas Rosica, a Vatican spokesman, said in what was described as an “explanatory note” that those who know about the Catholic Church “cannot be saved [if they] refuse to enter her or remain in her,” United Press International reported."

"Did Pope Francis Say It Was Better to Be an Atheist Than a Bad Catholic?"

[snopes.com]

"...This translation, provided by the Vatican Radio, makes it clear that the Pope didn’t directly say that it was better to be an atheist than a “bad” (or “greedy” or “hypocritical&rdquo😉 Catholic or Christian. Rather, the Pope was repeating a common phrase commenting on Catholics who conduct their lives in ways contrary to their faith."

--

The Pope is a spin doctor. His strategy is to try to keep so called progressive Catholics by offering these media managed comments, while not intending any serious change to Catholic theology, and keeping a calming hand over the reactionaries in the Church by clamping down on liberal minded church people, quietly away from media glare.

--

Why Pope Francis Isn’t a Liberal Reformer
[huffingtonpost.com] "

"But, as the old saying goes, talk is cheap. Pope Francis can present himself as a more compassionate pontiff all he wants. With over 40 years experience working within the stubbornly Conservative Catholic Church, the 78-year-old is no liberal. The reality is he is quite content maintaining the status quo.

.... And considering what happened to former Australian priest Greg Reynolds, the idea of this Pope embracing any kind of significant reform is truly laughable.

So stop calling him “progressive” already."

Greg Reynolds
"Church dumps rebel priest"
[theage.com.au]

"Dissident priest Greg Reynolds has been both defrocked and excommunicated over his support for women priests and gays - the first person ever excommunicated in Melbourne, he believes.
The order comes direct from the Vatican, not at the request of Melbourne Archbishop Denis Hart, and apparently follows a secret denunciation in the best traditions of the inquisition, according to Father Reynolds"

--

So -
If you're an atheist, you are still going to hell. Sorry.
No, Pope Francis didn't say It was better to be an atheist than a bad Catholic;
And, no, he isn't a progressive;

For those who wish to buy this Pope' spin, and the phony story about progressives and conservatives fighting over the church, well, better you than me;

I don't buy a word it it.

And those "Residue Catholics," as I call them, who want to report back how I don't understand how wonderful the Pope, is, spare me.

David1955 8 Mar 14
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3 comments

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Francis is the leader of the most powerful organization in the world. If one studies Catholic history one knows that politics are actually more important in the high levels of the church than any particular religious concerns. I am not bashing the Catholic faith here. Read any history of the church and they speak almost nothing about religion and focus only on political issues. The Vatican is a political machine on the world stage. Theocracy is its platform. Religion gives it power. The church will not and can not change to any significant degree. The color red is red no matter its shade or tone. Red is red. If you change it enough it is no longer red. The Vatican is the Vatican. It is not willing to change policies, it tone or shade, it by its nature is not designed to do so or become something that it is not. The small changes that we have seen have been only done in order to ensure its survival. The threat of non existence is the only thing that will have any effect on it at all.

Hello David. Always good to get feedback from you and I always take note of it. Your comment is interesting and seems to suggest that the CC is really at the mercy of organizational inertia. Not sure if I have captured it. But it is certainly true that the CC is a classic moribund outfit: it needs to change to survive, but it can't change due to its ballast and theology. So Francis is trying to play it cute: pretending change to keep liberals hopeful, while not alienating the traditional rump. A lot of that is spin, but anyway, you can only do that for so long. Already liberal minded Catholics are realizing that the change is superficial. I wish they would wake up and smell the roses, but that's me. Best wishes to you.

@David1955 It is a very tough soot for the church to be in. Theology does impede progressive policy. It is good to show a certain amount of concern for modern issues and imperative that culture does not actively affect policy.

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About the Pope having the final say:
In matters of church doctrine, the pontiff is only infallible when he speaks Ex Cathedra, I.e. from the Chair of St. Peter. Unless he specifies that he is speaking Ex Cathedra, his pronouncements are those of a mere mortal.

Interesting comment. I believe you are right. Some here of course would not agree. @TheMiddleWay

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I don't refer to him as some paragon of progressiveness ... but ANY move towards greater inclusion is going to receive my praise. It doesn't all happen at once. It's incremental. Like Finlandization. Don't poo poo anything short of perfection.

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