Same with me. Until I met my late wife, who was childfree by choice, like me, at age 37 for me, no women ever wanted to date me seriously or for that long because I didn't want to be a dad or stepdad when I was young. At that time, my late wife was also way older than me, which is why she didn't care about having kids then either. Now that I am older and widowed, my being Agnostic is the biggest, but not the only issue, because I live in Iowa, (even around its largest city) where 75% or more of single women on Match are religious and not open to dating non-religious men.

The other issues that impact my efforts at dating are being way out of the mainstream culture and lifestyle in other ways, like being a non-drinker, hating country music, not being family-oriented, and not being big on college sports, the last one being the least important by far....Not being family-oriented, meaning not wanting to see a woman's grandkids or adult kids frequently, is probably as big a reason as lack of religion for me. Even the women without kids seem to want to see their family frequently and have the man come along with them. As it is, childless women my age who are single AND non-religious are very rare in Iowa, maybe a few % at most. It's not quite the needle in the haystack, but it sure feels like it and it's still pretty fucking close to that......

@TomMcGiverin my typical relationships only lasted until, inevitably, the subject of having children would be touched upon, typically in under 3 months. I never lied about it, but was careful to not be the one to bring the subject up.

I've known for a long, long time I'd be a terrible father.

Married my 1st wife at 36, older than me also, with her kids raised already. I'm also not family orientated and have never liked kids, even when I was one.

@1of5 Geez, you sound like my brother in arms. We seem to have followed the same arc in life. I knew I would not be a good father either, like you, and so the kids issue killed any chances of LTRs when I was young. Here in Iowa, being not family-oriented, even with childless women, is a big dealbreaker with women, even tho I have very good reason to not be close with my family, which is now just my siblings left. Women just assume that if you are not close with your family it is all your fault and that you are defective or mentally ill. I can do relationships and a partnership with a woman just fine (which my 18 year marriage proved) and my marriage was happy and great, but nobody seems to want to give me a chance, which is what one woman from Match even said it me after we agreed we weren't a match.

Dude, you are my age and live in a much better area for dating when one is a non-religious hipster like us. You should have better odds than me. In fact, you live in the same city as my childhood crush, Jean Maixner, now married and still a childfree hipster. I wish I lived in your dating pool instead of mine. Good luck man......

@1of5 Prior to meeting my late wife, in late 1995, none of mine lasted over six months, tho five of them became sexual for a while and of course, none of them involved living together. Pretty discouraging and frustrating, just like now. Except now I'm older, my health isn't as good, I'm bald, and not as attractive looking. Plus, with what I've been thru, it's a lot harder to have hope than when I was younger and more innocent, as well as in better shape and more attractive-looking.

About the only pluses of now compared to when I was young are that I am financially secure, retired and not having stress or unhappiness from a bad job, have a much better idea of what I want in a partner and what kind of woman I am compatible with, a much better idea of how to do relationships. I also know myself better and am more secure with myself. Unfortunately, I have never learned how to market or advertise myself well and I don't get nearly enough opportunities to meet single women offline that are viable for being fruitful, nor do I get enough opportunities to meet women from online dating to keep in practice talking to single women. I need Will Smith's Hitch yesterday, lol!

Good banter.. I hated being a kid, holding kids, being around kids ...and did not want to chance putting one through what I’d experienced as one. Married young, but she agreed to my ‘most likely never wanting any’ (her older sisters never had them).

At age 36, and wondering ‘who am I going to pass the family homestead to,’ and, ‘I think I can do this,’ I …we did. Stopped at two, daughters. Was an at-home-dad and ‘homeschooler’ too.

Anymore, I’ll hold any that aren’t snotty, stinky or screaming.. and miss them. Later worked at all levels, from grade through high school, and had a natural and trusting rapport with youth. Honestly, I miss those too…

But the planet’s not hurtin for the lack of humans, but because of them ~

@TomMcGiverin my 1st wife basically lost her mind from hypoxia after surgery. Took about 8 years from start to finish, and pretty much broke me. In many ways I consider myself a widower, even though her body's still alive the woman I fell in love with is dead.

As far as dating goes I'm very lucky. The religious here are very rarely hardcore and the ones that are are easy enough to avoid.

I like being this age (except for the slowly declining health). Life's much easier now, I've accomplished a lot and now am coasting - which was importaint when I meet my current wife (on this site). I had the time and means to put into it, do a LDR, relocate temporarily, and move her back up here (she wanted to relocate up here and was going to with or without me).

You don't get to be our age without the mental and physical scars of life. My wife and I look at ourselves and each other as damaged, but repaired, with our "scars" adding to what's gone into making us who we are. We look at each other as if we're kintsugi pottery: [digg.com]

@Varn glad it worked out for you. Glad for you're kids that it did, too. I was and still am far to selfish to be a parent. Had I had 2 kids one of them would most probably be in jail at any given time. I feel i should be paid 1/2 what it costs to house a felon every year for not having kids and burdoning society with them and thier associated cost.

@1of5 My wife's dementia was five and a half years from onset to death. Are you talking about the same woman or someone different when you mention someone still alive and the woman you met from this site and moved with? Did you divorce your first wife, what I and others might call a medical divorce? I am totally agreed that I am scarred and will never be the same after my wife's dementia and death and, yes, it broke me. But I began grieving a few years before she died and finished it at least two years ago. What is breaking me again is the dating struggle with all the rejection and game playing......

@TomMcGiverin it's complicated, but my ex is still alive and taken care of. But what made her "her" is gone, and she became way more than I could take care of, plus was starting to threaten violence (she became emotionally/verbally abusive about 6 years before that). Side note; if you submit a recording of a 911 call to the court with someone threatining to "fucking stab you" things go your way a bit easier. Also, I firmly believe the cops have perfected teleportation - those fuckers were there in a heartbeat.

I meet my current wife here. Wasn't even looking for anything beyond occasionally having dinner with someone and hit the relationship lottery. I really have lead a charmed love life in many ways.

It took me about 3 years to finally recognize myself after the divorce, and hadn't realized how broken I really was. That shit takes it's toll.

@1of5 I think I understand well your situation with your ex, tho it sounds as if your situation was even more severe than mine was, as well as the toll it takes. My wife was happy, mentally healthy, and had all her marbles before the dementia. Sounds like your ex was mentally ill before the hypoxia. After the dementia, my wife too lost most of who she was after a few years and a few times got upset at what was happening with her and even hit me a few times after getting angry at me. She threatened to divorce me when she had to go to the locked dementia unit from assisted living and living with me. Most people have no idea how traumatic those experiences can be for both the patient and the spouse unless they have been there. It does emotionally break you some. I even had nightmares about it for a few years after. The last couple years I rarely dream about my wife, but when I do, she is normal again, without dementia, and the dreams seem to say that she is ok now in them.

Glad things have worked out for your and your life has improved so much. It really does take the love of another person to help most of us recover and heal from being broken, in spite of all this happy talk of needing to love yourself first, etc. Hope someone gives me the kind of chance you got, but I won't hold my breath anymore.......

@TomMcGiverin It can be terrifying for the person going through it, and not being able to help them or stop it is a horrible feeling. The strain it puts on everyone is unimaginable to people who've never experienced it. Sometimes life really does fucking suck, and all you can do is try to get through it.

I'm very fortunate to have found her, or to have been found by her. Figured I'd had my bite at the apple and that was that. To quote Yoda: lucky am I, yes.

I've heard people say they don't want to date people whose spouses have died, using the excuse along the lines of "how can I compete with a dead person?". Well you can't, and aren't expected too. They don't grasp that the relationship is over in a way that's much more final than just breaking up can ever be. They don't get what a benefit it is to have someone who's relationship was successful till it ended, instead of someone who's relationships have all ended in failure - like all theirs have.

I hope you do find someone that'll enjoy life with you, again. It's wonderful.

@1of5 Thank you for the validation and kind words. People who haven't been there as a dementia spouse have no idea what it's like. It does change you forever. It seems like with online dating most women my age who are divorced don't want to try dating anyone who's widowed for the reasons you mentioned, the cynical assumption that the man will never accept anyone else after the spouse's death or, even worse, the assumption that no men are ever done grieving their late wife even a few years after the death. Hellooo? Ever hear of anticipatory grieving? It's what I and most people do while the spouse with dementia is still alive and is necessary for one to cope and maintain one's sanity. By the time the spouse dies, most of the grieving for who they used to be is already done. Man, I wish more women were enlightened about this stuff....

As far as the benefit of having someone whose relationship was successful and happy, rather than a bitter divorce like the majority of women on Match, you're preaching to the choir here, bro. Before I started online dating, I blissfully and ignorantly assumed that most women on paid dating sites would be eager to give me a chance because, with only my marriage to my late wife as my one LTR, that women would be impressed by my better relationship track record compared to most men. But boy was I wrong! It seems like most women, for whatever reason, prefer to stick to the familiar and date only men who are fellow divorcees, even tho they have worse relationship track records. Apparently, being widowed from the only LTR in your history, even a successful happy one, cuts no ice with or impresses no one these days on the paid sites. And that's one reason I am bitter and frustrated by the lack of interest and response on Match...

@TomMcGiverin I think the fact that it wasn't a breakup scares people away, not because of the excuses of still loving them, or that they think their competing with a memory, its that they think if the relationship falls apart it'll be thier fault - after all, you did manage to love till "death do you part" where they haven't. That's pretty intimidating.

Pretty cool how success can screw you over.

@1of5 I think you totally nailed it, All these women who left failed marriages with divorce ARE intimidated by widowed men, esp. if the women never went to therapy during or after their divorce, because it threatens their whole denial about their fault or role in the failure of their marriage. I was going to write before your reply came out here that it seems to me like many or most divorced women seem more interested in finding another divorced man to date so they can go on thinking that the whole problem was their ex, also have a new man to date who will presumably understand their pain of divorce and want to hear their complaining about their ex, etc. (not that any emotionally healthy, nurturing, and empathetic widowed man couldn't do just as well, even without having been divorced). So, my advice to divorced women would be: If you want to have a better chance at success in your next LTR, try dating a widowed man. If you are more interested in blaming your ex and repeating the cycle, pick another divorced man to date. Plan to be unhappy again, followed by being along again. Better yet, if you are interested in learning something about yourself and maybe not repeat the cycle again, try getting some therapy, then dating a widowed man. Seeing the therapist will give you a chance to also bitch about your ex, but it's more healthy than what most women do, which is not get therapy, then pick another divorced man.........

As far as success screwing me over, you're goddamn right I am angry and bitter over that in the dating game. I shouldn't have to prove shit to people that I am ready to date again and can do relationships better than most men. My fucking record proves that, but nobody seems to give a damn or feel like giving me a chance on Match. And it's not because I'm overly picky or always trying to date out of my league on looks either. I worked with a dating coach for a month and she reviewed my activity on Match, saying she was not concerned that I was trying to date out of my league even after I asked her opinion on it.

@TomMcGiverin I think it's not just women but also men, and it wouldn't apply to all. Dunno, it's a complex subject that's well beyond my pay grade but it sure seems to be true.

What I do know is that I was able to take everything I learned from that relationship, good and bad, and apply those lessons to my current relationship - and it's fantastic.

People tend to do the same things over and over, even how they meet other people. We all fall into predictable patterns and unfortunatly a behavior that provides a modest amount of success will often be the "go to" strategy, even though a better way may exist. Basically, were idiots.

I checked our match and another site for about 3 weeks - call them profile mines - before i dumped them. The format here is much better for finding someone, imo (well duh). It's a much, much better way to communicate and get to know someone than just reading a profile for a few minutes.

@1of5 I agree with your idea of positively using and applying what I learned from my experiences in my next relationship, if I ever get one with a woman. However, that is a moot point if no one compatible and reasonable attractive, at least to me, ever gives me another chance, which is beginning to look pretty likely. As far as Agnostic being better than paid sites like Match, sure, of course it is. But that also means nothing if there are no local members my age in my area and I am not willing or really able to date LD, for reasons I have already stated here and in other threads. So, here I sit, feeling trapped and doomed to being alone, except for my friends.....I have only met seven women in person from almost two years of online dating, so the stats are pretty discouraging. My frustration is palpable....

@TomMcGiverin experience is only beneficial if you learn from it, then even negative things can have positive influence.

Last thing I wanted was an LDR - they're so hard to do. But this one wasn't. Except it was. Hard to describe, really. So worth the effort that didn't feel like effort at all.

Dunno what to tell you besides chin up and all that stupid shit that won't make a difference. I guess all I could say is don't discount someone showing an interest just because of one aspect not being ideal.

My wife has been reading these and is racking her brain for someone to set you up with, but she doesn't know anyone close to you.

@1of5 I appreciate your wife's interest and effort, as well as your support. It's pretty common among people on the coasts to not know anybody in flyover land.....and my biggest problem is living in ground zero of flyover land.....

@TomMcGiverin she's from New Mexico, just transplanted her here temporaraly (I moved down there for a bit). Now looking for a place in eastern Washington so we'll no longer technically be coasties.

Was weird living away from the sea. Dunno how you folks do it, but I'm gonna have to get used to it.

@1of5 It's much the same as being surrounded by Christians, rednecks, and rubes/hicks, I've lived in Iowa my whole life and it's all I've ever known. I have seen the ocean plenty, east and west, and I understand its allure, but I don't need to live around it. When you have a long term partner and it's working, you don't really notice or care as much what kind of people you are living around. It's you and your partner against the world, with of course, a little help from your friends. That's why finding someone else is important for me to ever be happy again living here in Iowa. Being a fish out of water is fine with a partner, without, even with friends, it becomes unbearable when one is older and mortality is knocking on the door...

@TomMcGiverin I missed fresh seafood. There is no substitute, unfortunatly. Fortunately, having been up here for a couple months she agrees

Everything's better with a partner, especially when the social environment sucks.

@1of5 Thanks for understanding...

@TomMcGiverin been there, kinda wish I didn't understand nearly so well.

@1of5 Totally hear you, bro..

Indeed. Because Christianity is profoundly rampant in small town middle America, I lay that on the line right off the bat. If he has a problem with my atheism, and the odds are good that can be a deal-breaker, it saves us both a lot of time.

@Deb57 It’s a bit of an IQ test, too

I would be freaked if someone said they were religious.

@Amisja someone move me to Britain ASAP!!!! How much do I need to have saved to emigrate?