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Some in the Jewish religious community is now pushing their agenda on our right-to-die programs. More holocaust comparisons. Why do so many people continue to fall for this 70 years after the fact and in light of what is going on in Israel.

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JackPedigo 9 Aug 20

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0

i despise all religious fanatics (no exceptions). a few yrs ago in winnipeg there was a case of a jewish family that refused to let an old man expire. he was in a vegetative state & on life support for weeks and full of pressure sores. it got so bad that a well liked doctor at that hospital resigned his position b/c he refused to participate in this expensive exercise in futility.

My late partner's brother and sister-in-law- paid a lot of money to get a special visa to come visit us (from Vancouver BC) when she was dying. They insisted she not participate in the Death with Dignity program and return with them to (their small) apartment in Vancouver because that is where 'family' was (but no doctor or community or DwD program). To my relief she sent them packing after less than 2 days. Luckily, she was, apart from her brain tumor, is full possession of her mind and body. It has been shown that in 2/3 of eventual death scenes the family talk the suffering member into hanging on until the last minute. I have said and believe if one truly loves another one should do all that is necessary for the other not oneself.

@JackPedigo ,
glad to know your sister had a painless, dignified death.
my mother died from a brain tumor in Victoria, BC 17 yrs ago. she went into a coma & they disconnected her feeding & hydration tubes. it took about 8 days before she died. it would have been easier for my mother & her son & daughter if she had had access to assisted suicide.
assisted suicide is supposed to be available now in canada. but some of the criteria are too stringent for many ppl to meet & they would prefer to go sooner. but as always the Fing religious nut-cases are making this issue as difficult as possible for the majority.

@callmedubious It was my partner (wife). Canada now has DwD although, I am sure it is honored differently in different parts of the country. My partner was lucky in that the tumor only affected her speech center and little else. She was alert and active 90% of the time. Unfortunately, it doesn't effect others the same and some do have serious issue. I recently read that next to the speech center of the brain is the center for understanding. When this is affected the person loses their sense of understanding and, so, may not be able to comprehend the DwD program and would be ineligible. The program can't deliver good results for all, only a lucky few.

5

If you had a clue as to how the Holocaust started, killing the mentally ill etc. you'd understand that once you set a point where there is a life not worth living you can start a slippery slope. The handicapped community was most afraid during the Kevorkian days...but I wouldn't expect a Holocaust denier to understand anything.

lerlo Level 8 Aug 20, 2019

Thanks for the comment.
The Death with Dignity laws have been written in order to prevent such things. The rules are strict and it took us over a month to get something done that should have been accomplished in 17 days. Anywhere along the process can be slowed by one person who disagrees with the process. In the meantime the suffering continues. Here is one published letter I wrote. Check out the link at the bottom. [sanjuanjournal.com]

We should learn from history but, at the same time, not let history trap us.

BTW I lived in Germany 15 years. My uncle fought with the Wehrmacht on the Russian front and was captured and sent to a Siberian Gulag for 5 years. I had neighbors who also fought with the Wehrmacht (one in France and one with Rommel in N. Afrika - he was sent to a camp in Texas). I have a degree in European history and understand many of the horrors of the Holocaust. It should send a loud message but it seems, more and more, it is being used as an excuse.

@JackPedigo yeah well after you've researched assisted suicide for a year and a half as I had to come back and we'll talk about it but couching any argument in exclusionary terms like "our" right-to-die programs isnt a good start. And no, the laws do suggest that there is a point where people should ask to die...and once you allow judges and psychiatrists to determine if you're "eligible" it's no longer YOUR right.

@JackPedigo [de.wikipedia.org] … I take it that you read German: Sterbehilfe vs Euthanasia ...

@lerlo Unfortunately, in this age we are more and more losing our individual rights. There is rightfully concern that someone may take advantage of a family member for personal gain. It has happened more than one thinks. In the Death with Dignity ruling, as I have experienced it is up to one's family doctor to make the final decision. Yes, a consulting physicians signature is needed but, if they support the law they often go along with the family physician. O can only speak from experience.
Where would you suggest we start? We all have our ideas but it always seems others (the religious) have their own opinions which often counter ours. The group, "Final Exit Network." [finalexitnetwork.org] has ideas that show, in the end, it is our right but we often have to take it ourselves.

@lerlo, @PontifexMarximus I have not. Is there a copy in English? My Deutsch is moderate but often complex ideas require and deeper level of comprehension.

@JackPedigo The deutsche version explains in some detail why Sterbehilfe (assistance in dying) is the preferred label. Euthanasie is avoided because the Nazi used it as euphemism for (mass) murder.
A translation cannot reflect that adequately.
Still throwing "Why do so many people continue to fall for this 70 years after the fact and in light of what is going on in Israel." into your initial statement deflates your argument.
Remember: You were arguing about Jewish religious interference in a legal matter in New Jersey.

@PontifexMarximus Words have different connotations in different languages. I am wondering what the word is in Switzerland? We used to have a car here called a Nova. This meant no go in Spanish. We cannot change words because they have different meanings in different countries.

I used the holocaust because this was the excuse used by the Rabbi lawyer. It was real and happened and was a real horror. Lessons need to be learned but when the victims use the term while mistreating the people they were supposed to share the land with it seems to have lost some of it's meaning. The issue should be a lesson not an excuse.

Can we change the subject?

@JackPedigo well … A Japanese university changed its name because of the meaning in English.

[brandinginasia.com]

5

Can you explain what you mean? Who represents, in your opinion the Jewish community?

The Jewish Rabbi lawyer who is speaking out against the program, for one. Using the holocaust as an example, to me crossed the line even more. Maybe I should stick to my criticism only to Christians and leave other religions alone? All religions are fair game on this site, or so I thought.

@JackPedigo all criticism is fair … but I just didn't get what it was all about. The link didn't open. I finally got the info. However, your comment "Why do so many people continue to fall for this 70 years after the fact and in light of what is going on in Israel." is perhaps not the best way to present your criticism.
I understand that some people get annoyed at the overuse and abuse of the holocaust horrors. And the laywer using this analogy is not doing his community a favour. It is true, however, that the Nazi used the term euthanasia ... but they committed arbitary no voluntary euthanasia => assassination on a massive scale.
By bringing in Israel you certainly deflate your argument to the point where it seems to be just another antisemitic rant.

@PontifexMarximus Thank you for your honest comment. I was told my opening statement was misleading and changed it with apologies. However, I disagree about the Israel part. I had a Jewish friend that renounced his religious mores because of what is happening in Israel and there is now an attempt at a boycott and many Jews are a part of it. To criticize Israel is not antisemitism but anti-Zionism.

Just because the Nazi's used certain terms should not mean they are no longer valid. The Netherlands and Switzerland have euthanasia programs without any connection to the Nazi's. It was also said Hitler was a vegetarian and anti-smoker. Should we all become meat eaters and smokers because it was a part of one evil person's persona? The problem, I see, with the holocaust is it seems to be a constant reminder of what was once done to a people and now it seems an excuse to mistreat another group by the said people. On this site it has been said that too often abuse is the gift that keeps on giving. The holocaust should send a message not give an excuse.

@JackPedigo Thank you for your detailed response … just a quick remark.

You: "To criticize Israel is not antisemitism but anti-Zionism." My comment related not to a very legitimate criticism of Israel's despicable actions. Which would not necessarily constitute anti-Zionism, but the fact how you through this initially into the mix.
You were commenting on a religiously driven initiative regarding some state matter.

I suggest you grab a copy of Shlomo Sand's "The invention of the Jewish people.

Yes … the holocaust should be a warning.
I have no problems with the term euthanasia though in Germany, because of what happened during the Nazi dictatorship, the term is largely avoided.

@JackPedigo Are their any unjewish rabbis?

7

VERY poor wording in your post. One Rabbi does NOT equate the entire "Jewish community."

@JesseThompson There are good and bad people everywhere. Forming opinions about an entire group of people based on the beliefs and actions of a few doesn't help.

@JesseThompson If someone is bad, they're bad, period, I'm not saying they're not. But I'm of Jewish descent, so are you implying that someone like me is also bad just because of that? That's what lumping everyone together does, and that's a dangerous road to go down. I don't see where you're going with this unless you're just trying to be right.

I was advised of my poor wording and have changed it. I am very sorry for the mistake. It was a post I made just after seeing the link. I should have given my posting a little more time and reflection. It was not supposed to be about the Jewish community only another aspect of religion interfering with our secular government. I feel all religious groups are up for criticisms.

@JesseThompson I never heard of Rabbi Yosef, but who really cares if one nutty cleric and his followers have absurd and obnoxious views? All religions have their share of such people. And I seriously doubt that 10 percent of Israeli Jews attended his funeral (where would they put them all?), and I particularly don't believe they all stated they believe "goyim" only exist to serve Israel. Sounds like antisemitic bullshit to me.

@JesseThompson How about providing your source of this "information"? Then we can determine where any fault may lie.

@JesseThompson Okay, I see your point. Maybe you're not aware that Jews in the US are not naive, they know there are Jews, particularly the ultra orthodox, who spout a lot of prejudice. Many ultra orthodox even feel that reform Jews like how I was raised aren't "real" Jews because they're not "religious enough." It's sort of a given that most secular Jews don't appreciate the ultra orthodox, but unfortunately all Jews seem to get lumped together -- ie, consider Trump's awful comment today about Jews voting Democratic betraying Israel.

@JesseThompson I appreciate your providing the source, and I now see the basis of your post. This man (who to me was a blight on Judaism) apparently was a major leader of the Sephardic Jewish community, which is a subgroup of Jews with ancestry from a particular geographic area (Spain, southern Europe). I'd put him in more or less the same category as Pat Robertson, Franklin Graham, Louis Farrakhan, and similar obnoxious religious nuts. I think his views as expressed in the article are disgusting, but they certainly don't represent those of the majority of Jews, any more than Robertson's and Franklin's views match those of the majority of Christians, or Farrakhan's views reflect those of the majority of Muslims.

5

Maybe the statement...’the Jewish community is now pushing,’ is putting all Jews into the same ideology on the ‘right to die issue.’ which can’t be true. But, I am not sure it is bashing Jews to make such a statement. I thought the article referred to a certain area where Jews are protesting the right to die. Then maybe I don’t understand the whole article?

Try 'the black community' in replacement, with bad generalisation involving drugs say, or criminality. Any common but pejorative generalisation. And then you see it.

Such generalisations are the work of fascists. And right now, there is a strong, well funded global movement to persuade people that

  1. there is a single Jewish community - with a common and secret agenda; and
  2. the agenda is nefarious;

Those who use generalisations like this are either deliberately or ignorantly partaking of that movement. The unfortunate bit is that lots of folks are buyiong into it - folks with AK47s and a Christian god-inspired determination to 'do something about it'.

Synagogues and Jewish schools have massive levels of security as a result. People who are visibly Jewish have to watch where they go and when.

@OwlInASack i get the picture...but, you know that is not from my personal experience. Where I grew up, we were very poor and my daddy took rabbits down to our ‘colored town,’ and sold them. I can never remember saying or doing things that degraded them...we were all trying to survive is how it seemed to me. And another little interesting ‘tidbit,’ I heard the words ‘Jew him down,’ and thought that was just something that came from the ‘back woods people’...it was way into adulthood before I knew that it referred to Jews. Note, ‘back woods people!’ That would refer to Appalachian people as I knew them...ignorant and backwards! Which described the majority of them! And I was one of them, growing up! Maybe, we are making ‘statements’ that sound global...that should only refer to a few?

@Freedompath Yes - absolutely. I grew up with a load of those too. 'Gypos' - the travelling community - we commonly believed were all theives, every single one of them. Our comments about black people were appalling. I could go on. Shameful - and I'm rightly shamed to be honest.

In this case I geniunely agree with the poster below who says this is nothing to do with end of life - just an excuse for the OP to write nasty things about Jews.

Unfortunately that now translates into some very bad outcomes again...

Anyway.

Language matters so much, as Trump shows us, and I find that I must learn to speak more carefully. And when I fail, I won't double down and blame others for failing to understand my intent. I'll apologise and resolve to do better next time!

@Freedompath I came from a poor family too: but ours was middle class and poor. Dad was a primary school head and I was the youngest of 4 natural kids and 2 foster brothers. Does give you a certain resilience though!

@OwlInASack ...’resilience,’ yes! My family could only scratch out a living with odd jobs...my mother only had 7th grade education and my dad had none! He did not read or write and worse had difficulty functioning in society! But, I am grateful, if not for them, I might not exist!

@Freedompath It scares me for my own kids. I try to ensure they have a sense of value - and values - but it's tricky. They end up with a sense of entitlement somehow, which is just not OK.

Hey ho. Weird when parents want to give their kids less!

@OwlInASack it is good to appreciate less, as we never know when it might be thrust upon us! It is harder to teach appreciation, when it appears an ‘overflow,’ is available!

You are right and I guess that little expression was what caused so much hard feelings. I will go back and rephrase it. Thanks R.

@OwlInASack Right not all Jews are the same. I hate what Israel is doing to the Arab community.

@Freedompath Funny but this reminded me of my German uncle. He fought in the war and immigrated to the US. He always complained about his 'Jew' doctor. I once asked him if he disliked him so much why did he go to him. He didn't seem to understand and simply said because he was a good doctor. That same doctor once told him he could not help him if my uncle kept smoking he would die soon. My uncle (in his 70's) came home, threw away his cigarettes and never smoked again. He lived to 94. Sometimes one simply can't stop saying things they have said hundreds of times before even though their way of thinking has changed.

My late, mother-in-law once showed me how to cook Brussels Sprouts. She said she knew because they were called 'Krauts' because they knew how to prepare cabbage.

6

Your antisemitism is blatant and revolting. I'm a Jew who is strongly in favor of intelligently administered right-to-die programs and who deplores Trump and Netanyahu. The great majority of American Jews share my feelings. So what "Jewish community" are you talking about, or is it simply your opinion that we're all alike?

I am aware of the group of cultural Jews. They are one of the largest secular communities. However, criticisms of the Jewish religion especially when it interferes with our laws and Constitution is not automatically antisemitism. Why do so many people think it is. We criticize Christians and Moslems and other religions why should the Jewish religion be any different. The holocaust was a horrible thing but it is far in the past and we should all have learned a lesson but the state of Israel keeps using it for their own gain and to justify their treatment of the Palestinians. It's called anti-Zionism and yes, I am guilty of this (and so are a lot of Jewish people).

@JackPedigo you and I have always respected each other but you have several members of my Jewish by Culture Group thinking you are anti-Semitic. Not all Jews think alike.

@sassygirl3869 We really need to hear more from Jewish people who understand the difference between criticism and antisemiticism. I think your freedom of speech is limited by the demands of people within your group. If you spoke objectively inside your group, it would collapse.

@sassygirl3869 I was made aware my opening statement was lacking in tact and I agreed and changed it. I had just seen the posting on FB and in my zeal wrote what I sent. I should have waited and rechecked my post. I apologize for the miscommunication. However, I often hear and listen to reports from the Jewish community on a variety of subjects and the situation in Israel have really polarized many in this community. I am also aware that the cultural Jewish community is one of the largest secular groups around. I agree with your premise to get more members of the community but I fear they are like the rest of us and not unified in their opinions. I have found people are people and it's not just religion that divides them, us.

@brentan Most Jews know the difference between criticism and antisemitism, although certain forms of criticism proceed from antisemitic tropes. Jews who are critical of Israel (including me) are often accused of being antisemitic, which is a ridiculous conflation of the Israeli government (bad) and Jews as people (no better or worse than any other ethnic group). But lumping us all together because some subset (no matter how small) speaks or acts in a particular manner is ethnic profiling, which when applied to Jews is antisemitism. (If applied to all blacks, it's anti-black racism; if applied to all Catholics, it's anti-Catholicism; etc.)

@JackPedigo You didn't come across as simply criticizing the Jewish religion (which, in my opinion, is as dumb as any other religion). You came across as though you believe all Jews continually use the Holocaust to justify whatever argument they happen to be making. You also appeared to be referring to the Holocaust as "bull" ("Why do so many people continue to fall for this..." ) which is a detestable lie regularly promulgated by antisemites. If you're truly not antisemitic, you'd best work on your communications skills.

@dan325 I did apologize and meant it but I don't understand why so many fall victim to violent communication. Personal names and attacks do not foster learning nor valid knowledge. When someone says something in which I disagree I chalk it up to misunderstanding and seek more information. Often the person is really a scammer and has no reasoned based argument and then I ignore the comments. So much of which I have read are only conjectures not real statements made by me. The admin has sent out a paper on the proper way to communicate and personal attacks are frowned upon and serve little value. I try to follow that premise and will continue to do so in the future. Good bye.

5

There is a wonderful program on HBO about the right to die. Alternate Endings. It includes some people who chose their own endings. My husband would have done the same given the opportunity. I think most of us would.

Canada botched our Rght to Die legislation. Despite one's stated wishes you must still be lucid at the very end to give one final assent. Many diseases will prevent that End Stage requirement from happening. If you're able to pull your own plug, it's too soon. If you are unable, it's too late.

@Wangobango3 Well that's useless pandering. How sad. Everyone has the right to be done with their life.

My late partner did and I have signed up for a willed body program. A lot was done in this community because of her choice and a lot of people were made aware of the program. I have became a spokesperson here on in our community for the Death with Dignity program which is a part of the endoflifewa program. [endoflifewa.org] Sorry, but I really get my back up when I see people spouting nonsense against the program because it is always based on some cultural or religious ideas and we all know how valuable (not) that is.

7

'The Jewish community is now pushing their agenda' sounds just like Evangelicals saying 'the gays pushing their homosexual agenda'.

Now, I know that the 'Jewish Community' is entirely homogenous, so the phrase is definitely valid, but how can we be sure of what their agenda is unless we get a mole into their secret Jewish meetings? You know they check for foreskins at the door, right?

I did hear that

a) they ALL go to those secret Jewish meetings. Like all of them. You know how, on a Tuesday morning you can never find a Jew for about 20 minutes even if you really need one for like, helping make a bagel or something? That's it. That's it right there. Secret Jewish meeting. That's where they agree their agenda; and

b) They've got a secret way of checking, now that loads of American's cheat and lose their forsekin even though god doesn't demand it of them, plus someone spotted that about half the people coming to the secret meetings seemed to not have foreskins, naturally. They were the the quiet ones at the back. So now, they also check you know how to make Kneidlach. If you don't know the 1/4 teaspoon of white pepper is optional, they don't let you in.

Your satirical comments have gone over everyone's head. Good thing they didn't notice the secret hand shake.

@ADKSparky Shhhhh! Don't tell everyone! We can tell 'em about the Kneidlach - that was getting out there anyway. But not the bloody handshake!

Now how are they going to tell who to let in?

I understand but many Christians (especially Catholics) don't have a 'foreskin'. I don't so would I gain admittance. However, I have to apologize as one member advised me my wording was poor (I have changed it). Too many have accused me of antisemitism and I can see where that came from. Sometimes, in my zeal I don't go over my wording and do sometimes mess up.

@JackPedigo

Thank you. Seriously appreciated. When I fuck up I hope I see it and say so. Appreciate when others do

4

What utter bull 💩💩💩!

4

I suspect their fear is valid but my heart goes out to people whose lives really are of no value to them, just endless distress.

6

In the US the Jewish community is far from monolithic, I suspect that secular reform Jews would be more in favor of right to die (this one for sure) and don't support trump or the current Israeli government

They showed it 5 to 1 in the last election I think...not Trump fans. Apart from the orthodox, typicallly massively liberal.

It did mention the orthodox Jews that were behind this. We hear of the Judeo-Christian nation when it serves us but the actions still show how the Jews are vilified by the Christians.

7

I think it is conservatives doing this regardless of the religion. I know plenty of conservative Christians who are against a person's right to end their own suffering.

It seems to be the norm with them. You missed my series on this and my letters to our papers. At the end I said these people can't wait to meet Jesus but not just yet. What galls me is the holocaust ploy. Still playing it and many fools are falling for it. Now it's used to actually extend suffering.

@JackPedigo ,
same old "everybody wants to go heaven but nobody wants to die." bunch of chicken shit hypocrites, imo.

5

They do NOT have the right to tell people how to live or die. Fuck them. This is not a slippery slope it's body autonomy!

Let me make this clear... "They" and "them" refers to "ANYONE" who votes against body autonomy. It does not mean Jews specifically. If you read that into my words, that's on you, not me.

It's also racist horseshit to claim that this is 'the Jewish Community'.

@AmiSue Excuse me.... which part of my statement is bigotry and ignorance, specifically?

@AmiSue, @OwlInASack I don't care who it is, one or many, regardless of religious affliction, no one has the right to override a persons body autonomy.

@NoPlanetB I think the point is, we all need sufficient awareness that gross groupings like 'the Jewish Community' speak louder than anything that follows. Once that's out there, we can ignore the rest.

@AmiSue If you have to ask then maybe your assumption was incorrect. I did read the article and if you learn comprehension of peoples actual words and not be governed by your over sensitive witch hunt, then maybe you wouldn't jump to mistaken conclusions.

I am anti-religion, every religion. I am not bigoted against Jews as a race (though I do not subscribe to "races" as we are all of the human race) so repack your outrage and save for for someone who is.

@OwlInASack I wasn't interested in the name calling or the finger pointing, right or wrong, just the results. Anyone who rules we don't have body is going to get vilification from me.

Just to make the point, let's try this:

Those fucking American's. They have no right to defend wealthy paedophiles, bomb and murder regimes just because they don't like them or promote that homphobic, racist, anti-immigrant shit with their science denying, wall building bigotry. Fuck them!

Doesn't work too well, right - even though it's a form of what a very large number of folks think?

@NoPlanetB Strangely quite a few Jews would care about the name. You could accommodate that perhaps?

@OwlInASack The "them" in my fuck them is the people who voted or supported the fight against body autonomy. I don't see why this is so hard for you to comprehend.

You paragraph makes no sense and I do not see the relevance.

@OwlInASack I think you are off track. I was not addressing the Jews. I was not referring to the Jews and I didn't consider the articles name calling when I made my reply. Is that more clear?

@NoPlanetB

You've used the term 'the Jewish Community' and connecred it to a set of beliefs that many Jews would not subscribe to. You may just be quoting the article.

If you really don't understand why this is offensive - OK. Not a lot more I can say.

Try 'the black community'. 'The gay community'.

These are useful fictions for bigots.

@NoPlanetB What's clear is you don't know how to apologise when you are badly out of order.

It's a skill we all need to learn sooneer or later - I've also had to do so.

@OwlInASack No I haven't. I never used "the Jewish Community". Please show me where I did.

@OwlInASack What is clear is you misinterpreted my words. And then ascribed words to me I never used. Why that is, I don't know. Are you just trying to be argumentative and I'm the luck of the draw?

Those words were used but not by me. Please reread the posts.

@NoPlanetB Which words did I ascribe to you that you didn't use?

@OwlInASack

"OwlInASack 8 replied Aug 20, 2019 0
@NoPlanetB

You've used the term 'the Jewish Community' and connecred it to a set of beliefs that many Jews would not subscribe to. You may just be quoting the article."

I never used that, you and another poster did.

@NoPlanetB

If in direct response to

The Jewish community is now pushing their agenda on our right-to-die programs. More holocaust comparisons. Why do so many people continue to fall for this 70 years after the fact and in light of what is going on in Israel

You write

They do NOT have the right

we are reasonably entitled to understand you to mean the Jewish Community.

Who else did you mean then? And if you meant someone else, how precisely were we supposed to know that? And given the antipathy and use of the term 'The Jewish Community' by fascists everywhere as a generalisation, it is entirely reasonable to react strongly to those both who do so and those who reasonably can be assumed to have done so.

@OwlInASack I was responding to the article about denying right to death. Not the posters words. I also amended my original post to make sure even you could not misunderstand my point. My point is and has always been NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO DENY BODY AUTONOMY. That is all.

@OwlInASack so we don't get off on the wrong foot. I am of jewish heritage, love the diversity in the community. I have read the argument between the two of you. NoplanetB is our friend. He never was referring to the jewish community and was never referring to “the jewish community”. He was appalled at the ideology that “prohibits anyone from physician assisted suicide.” That ideology that would dictate how he handled his own mortality.
Hope that clarifies this argument a little.

@NoPlanetB Try this.

Article
The black community supports legalising the forced use of cocaine on children to ensure future sales remain high

@NoPlanetB
They do not have the right...

FUCK THEM

@LucasfromGR I get it - now. But I was not alone - and read my last response - to understand him to have been saying otherwise.

And then he doubled down.

The original article was clearly anti-semitic. Crassly so.

It's not rocket science to not sound supportive of it...

@LucasfromGR Thank you. (btw, the he is a she 😉 ) That is correct. I am appalled at people who deny anyone for any reason their right to body autonomy. My target isn't and never was Jewish people whether religious or cultural. As I have actually stated several times. I appreciate your seeing reason above all.

@LucasfromGR The 'repack your outrage' comment was also crass.

So a nice white fella * - presumably not Jewish - tells a Jew not to be so sensitive because he doesn't see distinctions like race.

Maybe if you've been on the receiving end of our new fascists then such views can be seen for the privileged luxury they are. We should all stop banging on about colour too, right?

  • apparently fella-ess. Apologies for the assumption

@NoPlanetB

I appreciate your seeing reason above all

We read your post as it was written. I note you didn't respond to the direct questions on how else it was supposed to be read? And you spectacularly failed to clarify properly.

Personally I'd have apologised early doors, recognised that me intention isn't magic and doesn't wipe out offense somehow, and set the record straight that I am not supporting a crassly anti-semitic article.

But that's just me.

@AmiSue but, I understood the article to be reporting that a certain Jewish Community was protesting the ‘right to die and comparing it to the Holocaust!’ Did I misunderstand the article?

@Freedompath you misunderstood the headline!

@OwlInASack...then jack made a post statement that appeared to lump all Jews on that ‘right to die,’ bandwagon...is what I understood. But, since he was using the article for his idea, I saw that it was only that one area of Jews...not Jews in general, where did I get sidetracked?

@OwlInASack ...about the ‘Jewish Community’...how can you describe a community that is made up mainly of one ethnic group? Any Community that is mainly one specific group...would be referred to as to their ‘kind!’ I can’t see where that...in itself is disrespecting the people who live there? I for one, never lump people together in the same neighborhood! If there is a problem with one or more members, those are the only ones I evaluate...at least until I have more information that many were envolved! I can see where the Jews could be used, to exact anger and frustration...because their name is thrown out of context among the far-right wing, nuts! And trump does nothing to sew seeds of understanding! But, society as a whole is not disrespecting the Jews...as far as I can witness! And, my Jewish friend in Las Cruces has never indicated they have problems there and she would surely tell me! I am confused...we have Mininites here in their own community and that is how they are referred to...the Minninite Community.

@OwlInASack And you forgot to mention Guatanamo!!!

@Freedompath

about the ‘Jewish Community’...how can you describe a community that is made up mainly of one ethnic group? Any Community that is mainly one specific group...

But they aren’t: that’s the point. Lumping all Jews together to denigrate them is a practice with some history.

@OwlInASack ok...among the people in my life and myself, this is not something we ever came in contact with! I do know something in general about the different Jewish Sects, and I worked for a few Jews over my private duty nursing career! I have never had problems with Jews, nor have I felt animosity toward any of their sects. And I have this theory...that if there is a few like me, there are bound to be more who are very nurtural about Jews. I have always tried to respect every person in and around me, so I am beginning to feel like I am somehow being blamed for not understanding issues with Jews, that I know nothing about! Not, even the Jews that i worked for for years brought this to my attention! I am puzzled?

@Freedompath Well - that describes me too! But right now there is a rise of fascism and violence aimed at Jews in particular across the world. That comes on the back of tropes that generalise and denigrate them. Such stories as the original above are very much a part of that narrative... hence the strong reaction against it

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