This afternoon, I was playing games on my computer while overhearing programs about serial killers (a morbid fascination of my spouse). These programs do more than sensationalize the crimes by going into the background of the killers - their early life and possible early warning signs. They can be interesting programs. One killer featured was Jeffrey Dahmer who killed 17 boys and men and cannibalized many of the. I was surprised to hear that Dahmer had a jailhouse conversion to Christianity before he was killed in prison. So, I guess Dahmer has gone to live with Jesus in heaven. Hmmmm ...
Now, I don't need anyone to tell me it is all fairy tales, nor how awful Dahmer's crimes were. I get it. It does appear more than ironic to me that Christians will welcome a converted and baptised Jeffrey Dahmer to live with tnem in heaven, but will condemn millions and billions of others who led regular lives but just believe the wrong way or in the wrong God.
Early on after I had newly abandoned religion, I read an article I found particularly disturbing. A young Christian man (who it turns out suffered with a mental illness) believed God had told him to do away with gay people. Believing he had received this assignment from God, he went to a gay bar (in Houston if I remember correctly) enticed a gay steward with an airline to leave with him. He took the gay man to an isolated place and killed him. The Christian was caught right away, was tried, and I believed he was sentenced to a criminal mental hospital. I believe the article was disturbing to me because I was newly committing the ultimate sin - denying the God I had believed in - which meant I was headed to that lake of eternal fire (according to my former belief) while this mentally ill believer was still going to paradise. Something wasn't right about this. Later, I participated with a Yahoo evolution/creationism discussion group and had presented the scenario from this article but left myself out of it. Instead, the murdered gay man was headed to hell and his killer to heaven (never mind that the gay man could have been a baptised believer as well - that wasn't considered by the creationists because he was gay). Several of the creationist in the forum agreed that this conclusion was correct; none disagreed.
For me, it became a solidifying factor in my condemnation of Christianity. If God could be so petty as to reward those who commit horrendous acts simply because they believed and condemn the victims of such acts because they (presumably) don't, this was no God deserving of worship. If God could not respect my skepticism using the brain and mind God would have given me attempting to figure out these issues, I found nothing admirable about this God and wanted nothing to do with it.
Years ago I got into an argument with a Christian about this very sort of thing. I can't remember what started it but I remember asking this person about something similar. I don't want to go into a lot of details but my parents are in prison serving a life sentence for the murder of my BIL and the murder was committed in my apartment right in front of me. Both have (and my dad ironically was a Buddhist prior to this) "repented" and are now Catholic. My mother always was from when she was a child but my father had not been. I think he figured being a Catholic he had a better chance at a better afterlife than he would if he stayed Buddhist. At any rate, I was either atheist or close to being atheist. I can't remember if I had for sure decided at this point. I was told my parents deserved to go to heaven more than I did. This is despite murdering someone, destroying two families, almost killing their grandson (my sister was pregnant and my dad kicked her when she tried to take the gun from him) and so on. I haven't done anything nearly as heinous but I'm lying by saying I don't believe in god (that's what this person felt atheists do, I guess) so I should go to hell. Not that I believed in a hell thus the reason I was an atheist but it just goes to show the mental gymnastics some of these believers will perform. Some of them (and my ex-husband is very much in this group) cannot critically think whatsoever. They would rather remain brainwashed.
Believers are not afraid of Dahmer in heaven. He can't kill them and he can no longer eat them. I think the Mormons now have Hitler in heaven also. After all, this life is only a training ground in the first place. We live so we can learn how to be dead and being dead is our real life.
Anyone confused yet?
Christianity is not a gauge of morality or righteousness, but a cult that engages and fantasizes in barbarous acts against humanity while condemning all that disagree to it while believing to be morally superior to everything else. In tougher language, convert or else face the wrath; both real and imagined. If you convert, well then welcome to the club, that'll be 10%!
I completely agree with you on this. There's all kinds of loopholes in that Christian/god/bible bullshit. According to the bible, a killer or rapist can have a prison conversion and go to heaven, while their victims go to hell. Another example beside Dahmer is the son of sam. He became a Christian in prison, so by the bible rules, he's in heaven, while the young ladies and couples he killed are in Hell. Another one is the btk killer, he was a deacon or something in his church in Wichita falls. Even Hitler was a Roman Catholic. All it is is abunch of horse shit. If that's a righteous and just God, he's a giant piece of shit, boy is he. I mean really, look at the Catholic church. And recently, the Jehovah Witness church. Or the Duggers family. They all think it's ok as long as they repent.
Look on the bright side though, if I don't have a choice but to live this god fantasy, I'd rather be in hell with people like Darwin, Hitchens, Harris, O'Hare, and Dennett, than those preachers and serial killers.
Yes that always seemed the best argument to me. And remember that it is not just odd individuals, if you take the Christian idea literally, then there are Billions of Hindus, Budhists, Moslems and Taoists plus every Christian who joined the wrong church, who are all headed for damnation, even the children.
Those are really extreme examples of the hypocrisy of religion. Interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing.
So,. I have a Jeffrey Dahmer joke.
What can a Playboy magazine do that Jeffrey Dahmer can't?
Survive a beating in the bathroom.
The Dahmer joke I recall was during the David Koresh fiasco in Waco, TX. You will remember that all those Branch Davidians burned in the fire of their compound building. About that time, they said Dahmer had btoken out of his Wisconsin prison because he heard they had BBQ in Waco.
The best Jeffrey Dahmer joke that I remember:
Q: What did Jeffrey Dahmer say to Lorena Bobbit?
A: "You gonna eat that?"
The worse thing you can give to anyone like them is a Bible or any religious book. My comment about Dahmer or any other psychopath like him. Many people have a morbid curiosity, I have a bit of it as well, and get fascinated by these matters.
I just read a book, American Predator about the unheard of modern serial killer Israel Keyes. Utterly horrifying and there are probably more like him. This case is not widely known as the fbi didn’t make a lot of headway in it. He killed himself before tried. But his methods were unbelievable. Hard to put down.
He's not one I've heard of, but no need to expound (unless you feel a great need or desire to). No doubt, I'll overhear his story at sometime on Crime TV.
A further point here that one of the most insidious things about monotheistic religions is that they create a god with rules and commands, punishable by all kinds of terrors, but god itself is immune to its own moral and ethical laws. It can kill and punish with impunity, because god is always "good" no matter what. It has a kind of cosmic diplomatic immunity from all crimes. So then, when god "tells" its celebrants and followers to kill and do violent acts against transgressors, then the immunity flows on to them: god is always good and so are they, no matter what they do. The crimes of religions, cults, god- hearing loonies and all the rest are justified on the basis of this twisted, sick logic. And it stems from a belief in a single, true and always "good" god. Its gotta go!
The Divine Command Theory - whatever God commands is moral, no matter what it is. I thought it was very odd that God gave the 10 Commandments to the Israelites one of which was not to kill, and then soon afterwards commands the Israelites to go and commit genocide in Canaan.
as with so many ex-christians, an early step for you was realizing there are no GOOD gods. eventually y'all realize there are no gods of any sort. well, not all. some people don't get past that stage and mistake believing there is no GOOD god for atheism. i think from your saying it's all a fairy tale that you've gotten past that stage, which is good. oddly, jews (such as me) tend not to go through that phase (and also tend not to consider ourselves ex-jews). i am not saying there are no jews who went through it; it's just that the mindset is so different (and the focus on heaven and hell, neither of them a part of judaism, although both present in jewish folklore) is so irrelevant, that those of us who realize there are no gods sometimes don't even relate that to judaism to the extent of equating newfound atheism with a rejection of the religion. i know that may sound weird. anyway i think i'm rambling a bit. i'll stop )
p.s. i haven't stopped lol because i just realized that i meant to speculate that you heard these shows on i.d., which i periodically listen to, too. sometimes they do a fine job of not sensationalizing and other times they insert random screams that have nothing to do with the story and drive me nuts.
I agree with you, and a particular grievance for me is the glorification of the Manson Cult and his murderous moronic followers. Between the media and Hollywood they have turned these cowards into dark celebrities, oblivious to the facts and truth about the greater crimes. That's spree killing not serial killing, but the evil is the same. As for God, if there is one, and I totally do not believe there is, it is as oblivious to criminal acts as it is to genocide. When people ask me when I became an atheist I say slightly tongue in cheek that it was in 1969 when I was 14 and God allowed Sharon Tate to be murdered. In fact I have always been non or anti religious, even before then, so not strictly true but I guess I'm making a point.
So true! Thankfully you have figured out the Web of utter redicioulous nonsense that mind control uses to get a person into the gates of so called heaven. How truly unfair and unjust to condemn a person who might be truly good versus one who is a murderer but just accepted a God. Ugh!!
The reward simply for faith without regard to actions taken in life or character is often how corrupt leaders operate. A crooked mayor, governor, or president (I have seen it at levels) will give someone a top position simply on the assumption of loyalty and with little to no regard to the past actions, experience, or character of the person. It indicates a very selfish god or a very selfish leader.
While Googling to confirm details in my comments, I ran across a list of notorious murders who converted to Christianity while in jail. It more than underscores the sentiment initially expressed.
Reading some of the comments to this article makes clear that not all Christians are comfortable with the notion of complete redemption from these heinous crimes of serial killers, but as pointed out by subsequent comments, the biblical principle is clear and the conclusion is sound.
Yeah, but if you had gods brain it would all make sense. Of course your human mind can’t understand him justly condemning that evil gay person and allowing violent murderers into heaven.
I study serial killers, assassinations, and wars. If you don't learn from the past, history is doomed to repeat itself. Watching forensic files right now.
I don't have an issue with anyone who finds the subject interesting (unless they desire to emulate it) and I agree we must learn from history. The subject just isn't a particular interest of mine.
I worked with a religious nut and we were discussing me being married to a Chinese woman. I told him she grew up in China never being exposed to Christianity but she was very moral. I asked him if someone broke into our house and killed me, tortured her, raped her, and killed her would she go to hell not even hearing about Jesus. Before the man is executed he gets saved. Would he go to heaven and she goes to hell? He said, that’s right! I thought he had to be crazy!
Last April, Michele Bachmann dubbed Trump "a more godly, biblical president" than any would will see in our lifetime. But then, this was Ms. Bachmann - need we say more?
There may be a silver lining, however. Backlash from gross religious errors have diminshed the hold an power of religious institutions within society. The first I ever heard about was the Salem Witch Trials which essentially broke the strangle hold the church had prior to that incident. Apparently, something similar may be occurring among young white evangelicals.
We can only hope.