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Amazing how there are still people out there that think banning books is a good thing... no matter how ridiculous or redundant the subject matter. It's just too reminiscent of how the Brown Shirt Nazis handled things. [blog.hpb.com]

Captain_Feelgood 8 Sep 29
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1

I think it’s ok to ban some books. Some things are just over the line.

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For your viewing pleasure, the American Library Association compiles lists of top banned and challenged books in the United States. [ala.org]

Funny, I stumbled across that same page later this afternoon. 👍

I’ve read nearly all of them hehe

1

Why was James and the Giant Peach ever banned? And by whom?

What about Great Gatsby? Why would anyone ban that book, other than the fact that it ain't so great.

1

Hanging, drawing, and quartering are too good for anybody who bans, or burns books, or libraries,or who vandalizes archaeological, or historic sites!

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How about the Romans burning down the library at Alexandria?
History is full of such examples of men wanting to shape, erase, or change reality.

It was an army of Moslem fanatics who burned the Library of Alexandria.

@davknight Part of the library was accidentally destroyed by Julius Caesar in 48 BC, and slowly dwindled away over the years through lack of Roman Imperial support, and was finally demolished around 275 A.D. when Rome put down a rebellion in Alexandria.
This was well before there was any such thing as Islam.
Anyway, I was wrong too about it's relevance to the central point about "book-burning," though the validity of the general idea remains.

@Storm1752 The Caliph Omar had the whole place put to the torch in 640 AD.

@davknight

[ehistory.osu.edu]

@AtheistReader Read a little more about it, and gather it was a slow, gradual decline, with the penultimate blow struck by the Christians determined to destroy all things pagan. In other words, yes, Muslims would've done the same thing, only destroying all things non-islamic, but the Christians got there first and, despite the graphic descriptions of fires burning for weeks, there was apparently nothing left to burn.
Whatever.
Whether it was the Christians or the Muslims or both, the central point remains, even to the present day:
Regardless of the presence of physical books, each person keeps in his or her mind a private library which cannot be erased or burned. It informs their opinions, which at some point may harden into true belief. Then, it cannot be amended
For true belief, once established, seems intractable and will disregard any or all information to the contrary

4

I worked in a bookstore for over 10 years that specializes in queer, feminist, anarchist, anticolonial books. Every so often a discussion would arise about whether to carry a certain book or author, often do to things they had done (e.g.. Marion Zimmer Bradley accused of child abuse by her kid, or Lierre Keith's transphobic activism, or Hakim Bey writing pedo poetry for NAMBLA). Often someone would accuse those who wanted to no longer carry the books of censorship. This seemed absurd to me and still does.

I feel like people oftentimes don't know what censorship is and complain about things being censored when they are just being curated. What content a store chooses to make available says a lot about their values, and no one can truly carry everything, nor should they be expected to use their limited resources to create space for content that's in opposition to their own values. Just like I wouldn't expect a Christian book store to carry the Happy Satanist by Lilith Star or books by Dawkins, we aren't going to be giving shelf space away for bibles or the Qur'an.

To me the difference is power and scope. Censorship occurs when those who have power use that power to stop speech from being distributed or limit it's ability to be distributed, even by those who might agree with it. Often a state does this, although blacklists of artists like Buffy Sainte Marie are also examples.
On the other hand a store choosing not to cary a certain author in their collection isn't censorship. If they went to every other store and tried to pressure them into also removing that content from their distribution, then it would be censorship.

Another place I see that word thrown around is in regards to deplatforming speakers who hold racist or otherwise bigoted views. This is where people conflate being able to speak freely with being able to speak without consequences. I'm not arguing for or against deplatforming here, just to be clear. But not paying someone a nice honorarium and travel expenses to come talk on a campus isn't the same as banning them from talking elsewhere. If Peter Singer looses some possible paid gigs to travel and speak because he refuses to listen to people with disabilities who find his utilitarian arguments concerning their right to exist offensive, that a consequence mot censorship. He can still publish, he can still teach, so he's not being silenced, just loosing some paid work.

I did not know that Buffy Sainte Marie was blacklisted. Does that include the movie "Officer and a gentleman" As she co-wrote the theme song?

@273kelvin she's spoken about it in a number of interviews. It's a major part of why she went on Sesame Street actually, although she didn't know she was blacklisted until decades later. She just knew her music wasn't getting played, so she went to t.v. instead.
I can't answer your specific question though, I just don't know.

@PolyComrade I just did a little research and it was the Johnson/Nixon administration that blacklisted her. So I suppose that it must have faded out by that time.

1

Before I read the list of banned books, I falsely assumed they would be either sexual or atheist in content.

Boy, was I wrong. That is a sad and scary list.

Dude... Have you seen the risque shit in those Where's Waldo books?? To be sure! 😄

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We all know that ban them as you may, some of them are still out there someplace. Sooner or later a team will be put together to go door to door and look. Beware!

Perhaps a gov. buy-back would work.. 😳😖

3

I always enjoyed the Walden Book store. A lot of their display windows had banned books displayed. It was great! (I would have loved to see a Bible display in it to see if 'they' were paying attention.

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On the list given are perennial favorites of people who want to narrow the view of young people or people in general. Harper Less George Orwell Ralph Ellison, Alice Walker, Hemingway, Kafka, Nancy Garden to name the bigger names. All of these show a world view that people who want the world of their dim imagination! Sad but it is still going strong and needs to be countered every time it raises it's ugly head!

BillF Level 7 Sep 29, 2019

Not sure I follow you. What do you mean 'people who want to narrow the view of young people or people in general'? Narrow the view, as in, limit their view of the world? Not expose them to a different view? Keep them in a bubble? I mean, you would have to raise your kids on a compound in the middle of nowhere with no access to the outside world... very Amish type life..

@Captain_Feelgood Not so, I have a nephew who teaches chemistry and had a parent who is now suing the school board for sullying her mind with science. Their not going to win, might not even get a hearing, but, the mother made a statement that girls didn't need to learn science as it gave them a non-biblical view of the world. Ignorance is bad but we seem to be taking it to a new level!

@BillF Ahh... I gotchya.. Yes, there are folks out there that would like to see only their view in print... I'm glad the young girl isn't living in a cult like home environment.. 👍

3

I’m not sure if “banned” is the right word for those books. I’m supposing that some school libraries did not select some of the books, but it is the duty of school administrators to select books that they deem appropriate for their students. I have “banned” certain books from my house—Pilgrim’s Progress for example, but that doesn’t prevent others from owning the book.

If I hear that government has prohibited the distribution or ownership of a book I’ll take notice and react with alarm, but for now I plan to continue with my serenely idle retirement.

I refer you back to the first Paragraph in the link for the definition of 'banned' being used here... "Banned Books Awareness Week is a time to celebrate our intellectual freedom by reading books that others have deemed unacceptable for certain people to read. Reasons books get banned or challenged (which means someone wants the book banned from a school or library, but the request was denied) vary from “unacceptable sexual content “and “excessive violence” to “animals don’t talk” and “the book is a real downer.” " ..
I think most of the people (if not all) that requested the school ban a book, did so because of religious reasons. Sure, there were some books with sexual content that most people would consider unappropriated for very young minds.
I have to wonder, why you choose to ban Pilgrim's Progress from your home? It's well accepted as an allegorical work of fiction.

@Captain_Feelgood Pilgrim’s Progress is based on, and amplifies the stupid religious dogma that I was brought up with, and it fosters guilt and fear of hell. I read it once and that was one time too many. I have no use for the book.

No doubt there are some busybodies who make it their business to select reading material for others, but generally those people are pretty impotent. I’m not going to get worried or upset unless government censorship is at play.

@WilliamFleming Oh, I'm with you on the whole 'government censorship' thing.. no doubt..
Now I'm curious, do you ban all books from your house that are religion based in context? So,, no copy of the Christian Bible, or Torah, Koran?

@Captain_Feelgood My whole point was that the word “ban” is inappropriate in most settings.

I select books that are interesting to me. My library contains a number of books of Hindu scriptures, and many books about spirituality. I have a New Testament translated and annotated by Yogananda Paramahansa, but no Old Testament. It is to the point that one need not own paper copies of books. I have downloaded various versions of the Bible, the Koran, the Kabbalah, etc. but for my home bookshelf I am fussy about what I keep.

And what about you? What books do you keep? Do you have a full complement of Scientology literature? I would expect that an open-minded person such as yourself would keep a copy of Mein Kampf within easy reach. 🙂

@WilliamFleming WHOOA , slow your roll there cowboy! Why the animosity? I was just asking a legit question about your banning of books... No, I don't tell anyone that they are not allowed to bring this book or that book into my home. I don't have to agree with an idea to have a book about it. I do have a copy of Mein Kampf, but I certainly don't agree with it's teachings. I also have an English version of the Koran, but I certainly don't believe it's teachings either.. Hell, there are lots of books I don't have, for the plain reason of lack of room, but I wouldn't say one was banned.. That's all.. Jeeeeese ... Take a chillax pill there my friend.. 😳🙃😎👍

@Captain_Feelgood No animosity—I thought it was a joke. Can’t you see the emoticon?

You continue to talk about the banning of books after I have repeatedly said that the word is not appropriate in this context. That was the entire motivation for my first response—to express the opinion that “banning” is not the right word. I even made a joking analogy about my “banning” of Pilgrim’s Progress. You now are all over me for being one of those evil book banners. No, I do not “ban” books, but I do SELECT books that I want, and I do NOT SELECT those that I don’t want, the same way that a school librarian might do.

I have *Mein Kampf” on my iPhone that I got off Gutenberg Press. I found it boring until I got to his Vienna period. Reading that was literally making me sick, especially what he wrote about the Jews. I had to stop reading.

Sir, I did not intend to express any sort of animosity toward you. I am totally at peace and I wish you nothing but happiness and a good evening.

@WilliamFleming Well color me embarrassed. I totally misunderstood you. My bad.. Cheers😖😞👍

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