@attila Neither death nor time in jail serves as significant deterrents.

Whilst I agree to them being not so useful, they can become useful if utilized. What I do not agree with is all being mentally ill. The mentally ill do not plot and carry out planned crimes. I think 'heartless' is the category you were looking for.

Little interesting fact for ya Jacar. The first 150,000 people murdered by the Germans at the beginning of the Holocaust we're not Jews. They were called the "Useless Eaters" by the Nazis. They were people who lived on the welfare of the state.

@DSGavde Yes the mentally ill plot. Your description/definition of mental illness is way too limited.

@DSGavde, @Heathenman Totally agree with your example. That is why we must be clear.

The consequences for convicting an innocent should be the same punishment. This way we will reduce the number of innocents convicted by the assholes who are only interested in promotion. Any prosecutor/cop/judge who colludes to convict an innocent should experience the same sentence.

But>>>> when is is totally clear the human was responsible, it behooves us to use the money to support children and not the unredeemable.

Your example is to be heeded. But not used as the only determinant. Psychopaths and narcissists cannot be changed. Their brains are deformed. No reason to keep these mutants alive at the expense of the children attending public schools.

I think that there should certainly be a conversation about what bar of horribleness should have to be cleared to be deserving of the death sentence, because there are certainly some monsters that need buckshot therapy; not because their crimes are so horrible, but because they are too much a danger to humanity while they live

Would be less expensive if there was criminal justice reform, but lawyers won't do it since it affects their income

@bobwjr It is not up to lawyers to pursue criminal reform, not AS lawyers anyway. Republicans oppose criminal reform for two reasons: 1. They perceive, perhaps correctly, that their base is bloodthirsty, and 2. They get too much of a kickback, at least in the current administration, from the private pris9n industry.

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@genessa yup but most legislators are lawyers and republicans

@bobwjr we can change the republican part! and not all lawyers are crooked. but yeah republican ones....

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Keeps them from escaping or getting paroled & doing it again! Do you know Manson was up for parole every year for de ades?

@Gwendolyn2018 I do not take death very seriously I’m afraid. Over 150,000 people die each day. My own body is nearing its expiration date and I just today learned of a skin cancer that I have.

Still, out of respect for those who so abhor the death penalty I am giving them a modicum of support.

@Gwendolyn2018 This thing on my ear is thought to be treatable. I’m a little bit concerned because it’s been there a couple of years and might have spread. Cancer runs in my family. I’ve had one version that I don’t like to talk about much. I will say though that it’s a good thing we have two of some things or I’d be singing soprano.

As was drawing glasses on a sleeping grandad in our family!

What if the goal is rehabilitation or simply making society safe?

@itsmedammit Then I would say imprisonment as a concept needs to change. Those convicted of petty crimes, are usually those who are struggling to get by financially. They need to be trained in prison with a skill useful in society so that they don't need to revert to petty crimes to self sustain again. Criminals cost the taxpayers anyway so might as well invest a little more and ensure that they become contributing members as well. The more heinous crimes resulting in capital convictions can't be dealt in the same way. Just letting them rot in prison (life sentences) not only drains the resources (contributions made by upstanding citizens) but also provides no result. So why not use them as subjects whilst also keeping the society safe?

@DSGavde We certainly need some serious criminal justice and prison reform, beginning with de-privitization of prisons.

I think killing people is not what a civilized society does.

@itsmedammit Prison reform I agree with.

Never suggested killing people at all. I'm just suggesting utilize them for tasks where other people could suffer as volunteers. Prolonged exposure to certain tasks of such nature (e.g. Toxic waste cleaner) could lead to death. So I would rather prefer a criminal dying than an upstanding citizen, as the job definitely needs to be done.

@DSGavde Thanks for the clarification.