Agnostic.com

22 22

One of my biggest gripes with the religious is with those who insist on grace before a meal, and then express no appreciation to those who produced or prepared the food. This leads me to wonder about those who speak of cultivating gratitude in their lives, but are only speaking of an internal feeling, and not about thanking someone. Can there be gratitude without it having an object? And for once, I would appreciate the woo-woo police weighing in on this. Would gratitude that lacks an object constitute theism in your mind?

DavidDuhon 7 Nov 18
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

22 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

6

I am with you on this one. My nephew recently married a woman from Nigeria whose mother is deeply religious and cannot utter a statement without including a "thank you, Jesus" somewhere in the her words. When she dined at my house she would not let us eat until I closed my eyes, bowed my head and thanked Jesus for everything that we were about to eat. I refused and explained that it was my house and I made the rules there. (I also do not let my mother watch Fox News when she visits.) It was an awkward moment and I suspect she will never warm to me, but this really offended me. I might have been okay with her saying a prayer but her requiring me to say one was just outlandish.

Good for you! My ex father in law belongs to the Church of God/God's Acres. Entire family agrees this place is nothing but a fundamentalist cult. He is the the only family participant, but he is waaay deep into it. Anyway, when he travelled across country to visit in CO the first time, he wanted everyone at MY dinner table to hold hands around the table while he made up woo-woo bullshit (i.e., said grace) while the meal I'd prepared chilled over. I was taken off guard. Once.

But after dinner, I had a discussion with him. Pointed out that I respected his right to his beliefs, but this was my home, and there'd be no group prayer meetings at my dinnertable. I offered that he could say a silent grace to himself prior to eating but not to expect anyone else to wait for him.

Trial meal #2 forced me add that he was not to utter "amen" loudly afterwards to try and make anyone else in the room uncomfortable, and that it was passive aggressive and rude. I told him if I should ever dine in his home, his rules would apply, so long as I was not asked to participate beyond waiting silently and patiently. Seemed to be a workable truce.

I have found that kind of thing so annoying and insulting . But I’m trying reduce my annoyance, at least when it comes to family . I pretty much keep to myself on the biggest day that goes against the separation of church and state. I am not close to my family, and have not spoken to my mother for several years, and before that we barely spoke, maybe once or twice a year. I asked her more than 20 years ago not to involve me in her Xmas BS, and that I celebrated the winter solstice, but she continues to send Xmas and Easter messages. She expects me to accept her bullshit but she doesn’t even attempt to respect my choices. Maybe she even does it to annoy me. It’s sad because my whole life I wished she was not my mother. It’s probably obvious I was the black sheep, and never fit in.
It’s behavior like that, among other things, that turns atheists or non-theists into anti-theists, which I am aligning with more and more ( aligning with Hitch) Secular societies can tolerate religion as long as they keep it to themselves and it doesn’t come out in public. But if they continue to push it on everyone else and bring it into the public and legislative venues, then it’s going to become a real problem, as it has. Anyway, just venting and contributed to the conversation. 🙂

6

In answer to your question. Yes. Though I am not sure if you can show gratitude to something like nature for example, which undoubtedly exists, unlike god, but which does not have consciousness or intent. The cooks, truckers and farmers are the best choice.

There is an old British story, I don't know if you have it in the US or not, so I will risk retelling it.

There was once a poor old man called John, who went round the village knocking on the doors of all the landowners. He asked if they would mind, should he dig over all the spare rough weedy corners of land, in the village, the little bits in the corners of fields, the unused bits where lanes met and at the bottoms of gardens, and so on. Most said. "Fine do as you wish." So he dug them all, putting in a great deal of labour to get rid of the weeds, trim the hedges, manured the earth and sowed seeds. Most everybody was happy to see all the untidy corners cleaned, and by mid summer he had a fine crop of vegetables, even though it was spread across twenty tiny plots.

One day, as he was working on one of the bigger patches, the priest walked by and said. "Hello John. I see that with the lords help you have grown a fine crop." "Oh no" Said John. "You should have seen what it was like when the lord had it to himself."

4

It’s like thanking god when someone recovers from illness. Never mind the doctors and nurses with their knowledge and expertise....it was all jebus

@OwlInASack I’m so glad your baby is doing well.

Thank science!

@OwlInASack Bwahaha!!! Love the cone.

Glad he recovered from leukemia AND his first night clubbing

@OwlInASack must be a British thing. Or I was/am too much of a rule follower.

Perhaps both!

3

It's no different than those who credit their god with saving them or a loved one from injury or disease, instead of the medical professionals who actually did the work.

They're morons with that bullshit.

Ha! We posted almost the same thing

@Marcie1974 Yep. Great minds...

2

I always remember the before dinner ritual of friends of mine that shared a house when I was younger.
They would point to the picture on the wall and say "Grace!" in unison before tucking in.
It was a portrait of Grace Jones.

2

But, but, the food just magically appears from the Sky Gods larder because you are so deserving......

2

I think gratitude is vital for fully appreciating life in any walk of life. But I would much rather hear a thanks to the farmers, cultivators and preparers vs to a non existent god.

1

while at family dinners, I'd always thank the host + whoever made the meal. I never bring up god. In fact, instead of saying the full "OMG" I make sure I say, "Oh my science." just to throw everyone for a loop.
No god in my 'grace', just thank you to those who actually made/prepared meals/drinks.

1

I have a view on this and simply cannot get others to see it. Imagine for a moment that you pray and want god to use this food for the nourishment of your body. Every prayer over food goes something along that line as you "thank god for the food." Now imagine you live in a world without refrigeration. Praying over food takes on a whole new meaning. Let this be nourishing and also do me no harm.

1

I always was subjected to this ridiculous bullshit at Christmas with religious relatives. I always thought why the hell should I thank a god when my father broke his ass working for the money to buy this food not some pathetic faceless made up god

1
1

I am grateful without an object and I don't think that it is theism. There are many less fortunate human beings on this planet and I think that it is important to recognize that.

It is when you say grace. Thank the chef intead.

1

I recall a grace prayer. In the name of the father, son, and holy ghost. The one who eats the fastest gets the most. 🙂

1

"...and bless the hands that prepared this food." That was rather common where I was at.

Word Level 8 Nov 18, 2019

Yes, that was almost always included in the pre-meal prayers I always heard.

1

Once I realized that religions are based on lies, imaginations and non sense all over, I decided to reject and stopped analyzing. I feel liberated not analyzing and not even thinking about about it.

My problem is that I was former clergy with the heart of a teacher. I was passionate about it. Now I’m just as passionate about helping people wake up. I’m sure I’d have more peace if I could just not care anymore. Lol

0

I've been in the boat for more decades than I care to admit... The religious thank their gods for the food on the table. I give thanks to the lives that have been taken and how it gets to the table so we can eat. I'll hold hands if they want, but I don't bow my head or close my eyes. I look at the food. I don't care what the others do or don't do before they eat. One basic thought: all life feeds on death.

0

My ex controlled our money and would humiliate me every time I asked for money to buy food. He would give me the money but first had to get angry and berate me for needing the money. I remember the first time we went through that little ritual. I was shocked and traumatized that he criticized me over needing grocery money. Then, after I'd gone shopping and filled the pantry with food, he looked into the pantry, turned to me and said, "I'm so thankful to god for all of this food." Any questions about how this man eventually led me to stop believing in god?

0

Especially when praising grace to Jesus c., When a lot of Latino's named Jesus actually grew the food!

0

I hated havign to wait for "The blessing" of the food (grace) before a meal. We had six kids so by the time everyone was at the table the food was no longer hot. I still encounter this at the homes of the siblings who are still religious.

0

This reminds me of the Japanese custom. They say "Itadakimasu" meaning " I recieve this.

For Xtians, it is the psychology of control through repetition.

Not only must you go to church every week, but pray to sky daddy before your top ramen and pray before bed so you can wake in the morning.

For some people, once they stop praying frequently, they stop believing

Imagine that.

0

I don't know whether gratitude has to have an object. Maybe to "thank one's lucky stars" is simply another way of meaning "I'm glad I was lucky."

0

I don't necessarily think gratitude for the abstract would have to be theism. I think I can be grateful for the ability to feel an emotion.

But to me the intresting part of your post would be the people that do thank god before eating a meal like would they blame god if the food poisoned them or a loved one or would they try to find the human responsible?? Any philosophy that only credits but never demerits is insane to me.

And in this case there is the further implication that the to-be-thanked entity in question is holding you in abject subjugation, requiring your worship and gratitude. God is a particularly nefarious slave owner.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:428062
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.