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If a god exists, it is an Atheist!

I don't care which way you want to spin it but if a god exists then it is an Atheist. By the one or the various definitions of Atheism god still exists as an Atheist. Here's how.

We will assume god is all-knowing. Therefore god will know there is no other creator than himself. Therefore, it will not believe in a god that created him. Therefore, it is an Atheist by this definition. It does, of course, have a reason not to believe in a creator being that it knows everything. But that doesn't change the fact that it still does not possess a belief (lacks a belief) that a deity was responsible for its creation/origin. It doesn't even matter if one says that it wasn't created; its been here forever; still does not change that it is an Atheist.
If god exists it also denies a Theos - Deity that created it. If a man spoke and asked God "Who created you?" its response would probably be "no one; I've always been here." This is a denial of a deity that created it; this is the only logical inference. God by this definition is an Atheist.

Finally, god does not belong to any theological religion. By this definition, god is an Atheist. For the more astute thinkers among us, you will have noticed that I have explained how god is an Atheist according to the various definitions that Atheism often gets defined. I haven't changed the definition to suit myself as that would be fallacious; I have used definitions that other people use as well as the one I use myself and think makes the most sense. Whichever way you spin it God is an Atheist.

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Happy_Killbot 7 Dec 12
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16 comments

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0

Very clever. You have contrived a definition of atheism that allows this argument to make sense. And while we're contriving definitions when I used the word "clever" earlier, I may well have been using it the sense of cheeky and slippery rather than logically rigorous or convincing.

0

Assuming God knows He is God, then he, by definition, believes in Himself. Ergo, can't be an atheist.

An omniscient being can not believe anything, because belief implies that there is something unknown, which is a trait that by definition does not apply to an omniscient being.

Therefore an omniscient being has perfect knowledge of its own existence, not belief.

0

With such a disastrous track record he couldn’t possibly believe in himself! Perhaps some CB therapy might help him get through this challenging period in his existence.

0

"We will ASSume....." uh huh

1

An Omnipotent and Omniscient being would have no need for an imaginary friend, therefore such a being would be an Atheist. 🙂

0

First you have to give objective evidence that a god is real.

0

Cute. If there is a God, then God is an atheist in the sense that he is not a theist because his omniscience is beyond any need for belief or faith in himself, let alone in a non-existent preceding creator God of God. But, this is only because the concept of theism only applies to mortals, not to divinity. Semantically true perhaps, but only because the concept of theism does not apply to God. One could also point out, for example, that a mortal atheist is not convinced that God exists, whereas God is convinced that he himself exists. Also, a mortal atheist is incapable of comprehending God, where God being omniscient comprehends himself completely. This is really an exercise in the ironies of the concept of God. This is why I am an ignostic. The very concept of God leads to a tangle of mental knots from which there is no escape.

0

A God that doesn't believe in God. Interesting concept.

Well, if god is all powerful then god can't know that he's god.

An all powerful god can do anything, including create a copy of himself with all his knowledge and power - but also choose to deny that copy the knowledge that it is a copy.

If god is capable of that, then god cannot know whether he is, himself, such a copy.

@ToakReon If you say so.

I still stand by my comment.

2

Well, originally, the god of the Jews believed other gods also existed. It did not start out being the ONE AND ONLY GOD..that came later.

1

Well, there are no gods, hence gods do not exist. This makes the post a moot point.

The point is something to tell fundamentalists to make them cringe.

@Happy_Killbot I spent a few years wanting to make them cringe and shake them, but I just don't care anymore. Until they bring religion into politics, anyway.

@Happy_Killbot if you want to waste your time, knock yourself out. You can't reason with the brainwashed.

@Mofo1953 Who said I want to change their minds?

No, that's stupid. The point is to change the minds of others who are not participating directly.

That is how change happens, when people switch who they follow. It's a slow but steady process, and in about a century or so the religious will be a small minority, and it is because of little things like this.

@Happy_Killbot i didn't say that, you said "make them cringe and shake them" so knock yourself out.

0

Um... I guess so. Using your own definitions you can make any statement true. Also, why can’t God create himself?

If it did create itself, it would still be atheist, because it would lack a god of its own, assuming it knows that it did create itself, and if it is omniscient it will.

@Happy_Killbot Atheism doesn't mean "without a god" but lacking belief in god.

@JustAskMe That sounds as though you might be playing with semantics!😉

@Geoffrey51 The post is a semantic waste of time. And what I said is not an issue of semantics. For example, I can be without money, yet know / believe money exists. They are very different things. However, the person posting who is agnostic, is saying to other agnostics that God is an atheist. ... It's really just total, useless nonsense.

@JustAskMe I thought it made for an interesting discussion. As they say ‘different strokes ....’

@Geoffrey51 I find it disappointing that so many atheists and agnostics find religion and gods worthy of discussion.

@JustAskMe but you’re engaging in the discussion!

0

You say, " We will assume god is all-knowing. Therefore god will know there is no other creator than himself. "

So, "God" would be all forces of gravity, kinetic energy and chemical reactions?

Let's look at: create
verb
bring (something) into existence.
"he created a thirty-acre lake"
synonyms:generate, produce, design, make, fabricate, fashion, manufacture, build, construct, erect, do, turn out;
bring into being, originate, invent,initiate, engender, devise, frame,develop, shape, form, mold, forge,concoct, hatch; 
informalknock together, knock up, knock off
"the sculpture has been created out of Portland stone" When a Male and female do the reproductive activity, this causes a new being to come into existence. People are creators when making babies.

Often, create is used in context of bringing something from nothing like the big bang myth would speculate. I am not discussing that version here.

Hydrogen, they say is fused in the gravity pressure of stars to build larger elements like helium and the rest of the known periodic table of elements.

When ever a new helium atom is made by fusion it would be a new creation. Not that helium is new but that specific atom is new. The Sun and stars then could be looked at as Creators.

Continue with chemical reactions that bring about compounds that support what we call life having complex cell structures. Each one may very well be a simular copy of another yet they are each created and unique.

Creation by combining by use of forces is all around. Almost omnipresent maybe.

From the ancient-Hebrew.org reference: #1.
The Positive and Negative nature of Elohim
When I speak of the positive and negative nature of Elohim, I am not speaking about a "moral" positive and negative, but the "forces" of positive and negative, much like the two poles of a magnet or the forces of the protons (positive) and electrons (negative) of an atom. God is a perfect balance of positive and negative:
#2. Ruach is force, something with kinetic energy. Its base meaning is "moving air" — whether in the form of breath, a breeze, or violent storm winds.

So, what is written about Ruach of Elohim, or in English "spirit of God"?

Word Level 8 Dec 12, 2019

I'm not really sure what your point is and how it relates to this topic, so I would just like to point out the slight mis-understanding in the way that stars are formed. It isn't the gravity that causes the hydrogen to fuse, stars are not dense enough for this to happen and the gravity at their core is nowhere near enough to make it happen. It is the quantum probability that any atom will at any given time tunnel through the coulomb barrier and fuse, because of the shear number of chances for this to happen because of the number of hydrogen atoms.

@Happy_Killbot that's a new one since my highschool physics or chemistry 25+ years ago.

@Word might be that science has moved in a bit in 25+ years!

We didn’t have string theory when I was at school!

0

Are you saying that she lacks belief in her own existence?

Word Level 8 Dec 12, 2019

@maturin1919 I cover this angle. Atheism is based on belief, so if you know that you exist you don't believe in yourself. In fact, an omniscient being can not believe in anything, because by definition it knows what is and isn't.

@Happy_Killbot belief means accept as true.

If you accept truth, howbeit that you know it is truth, then you accept and hold the truth as truth.

You can know something is truth AND have a belief that it is true.

@Happy_Killbot I do not accept it to be true that I exist. Another sentence that says the same thing: My existence is not truely real.

@Happy_Killbot I’m with you Happy. I think some people are being deliberately obtuse!

1

Well it doesnt exist, so TL;DR. 😉

1of5 Level 8 Dec 12, 2019
1

I like you. You make me laugh.

2

you have made a case for jesus, who may or may not have existed, not to be christian, which most of us know, but it's amazing how many christians seem to think he was (if he existed) a christian. he didn't follow himself!

but you have made no case for god's being an atheist because, unlike jesus, who probably didn't exist, god almost certainly doesn't exist, and i only say almost to accommodate the agnostics among us. therefore he not only isn't an atheist, he also isn't a teacher, a plumber, a stamp-collector or an alcoholic, among other thing he's not, because he's NOT. so he's not an atheist, but why pick on that one feature of his nonbeing, since he's not anything else either?

g

Because it really, really, REALLY bothers fundamentalists.

No this doesn't make a case for or against god or Jesus, it just shows how they know nothing about their own deity, and if they want to be like it they have to give up their belief 😉

@Happy_Killbot but they're not reading this lol. so your post isn't annoying them.

g

@genessa follow the link.

@Happy_Killbot no thanks. i am not denigrating it. i just have other stuff i'd rather do.

g

He may however be a figment of imagination in which case he exists where that level of existence exists.

@Geoffrey51 and so does oliver twist, but while as a teacher i might encourage students to examine oliver's character (there isn't that much there, actually) i would not find it useful or helpful to try to twist things around (pun intended of course) just to make a point. i also don't really need to convince anyone that young twist is fictional. it's understood.

g

@genessa Thats true, but the essence of the character exists or Dickens could not paint him in so many literary colours.

He will mean to the reader what the reader connects with and that will be different for everybody and different for every time he’s read.

As my Eng.Lit prof said “Let the book read you”

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