Is it necessarily a good thing?

@St-Sinner Was thinking today of how much the extremes have in common.. Let’s figure it out with the R’s -- Their radicals shoved out their mainstream members, creating the “Independants” (often dubbing themselves, ‘Libertarians.’

Moderate R’s are stomped in the primaries, or missing to begin with.. Thus, nothing but fearful candidates towing the far-wrong line at every opportunity. Given Gerrymandering and voter suppression, they win.

Moderate D’s remain the heart of the party. Tolerant of their radical Left, they suffer the consequences … as in 2016.. Combined, they’ve more ‘registered voters’ than the R’s, but given how they’re prone to play softball - too often lose to the hardball party.

The R’s remain desperate, so continue to play a desperate game. Their industrial backers are winning, at least in the short term, but the poverty struck bulk of dumb-as-dirt ‘little r’ republicans are falling too far behind for even the D’s to rescue..

Good or Bad, we’re all losing. Makes me sad, and mad.. But guess that’s what I get for being in the ..majority

Avoidable failures, mistaking the euphoria of small fanatic band of 2 or 3 East Coast state supporters as nationwide support and spoilng a possible win with socialist talk worry me a lot.

@St-Sinner good to know (about your worry).

@St-Sinner You are glossing over the fact that Sanders has more support in the rust belt than any corporate democrat ever will. And now that that he is prominent in the polls, the media is forced to lift the blackout to some extent. The more his message is broadcasted, the more support he gains and the more the media are forced to pay attention to him.

@RoboGraham
You are working hard to defend Sanders. I must give you that.

His honesty is appealing, supporters' enthusiasm is high, his fund raising relates to the enthusiasm but do you believe that America where plastic personalities are idolized, looks, putting families on display, influence of money, the grip of capitalism will really allow Bernie to succeed? Bernie's ideas may be an Utopia in our land. I believe Bernie's demographics, personality, wild funding plans to finance free everything just cannot sell. I want to agree with you but my mind is not giving in. I don't dream, I think of the realities on the ground. I don't see Bernie becoming president. Nomination? Unlikely but possible. Our party is going far left for some years any ways.

Do you know how big the Mormon factor was behind Mitt Romney losing? Or you want to deny all realities and still say Bernie will be elected?

I can understand you want to beat the odds but starting with high odds and stacking more on them with crazy talk is not the way to do the MIssion Impossible.

@St-Sinner It's good to be pragmatic. It's good that there are people who think the way you do to balance out people who think as I do. You're right, neoliberalism has a stranglehold on American power and culture. It is unlikely and it will be extremely difficult but it's worth fighting for.

Even if it doesn't work, which admittedly it probably won't, the struggle will be worth while because it will move things forward. It has been Bernie's function all along to be the avant garde of progressiveism. He blazes the trail, he brings "radical" ideas to the fore and later they become mainstream.

I don't deny the reality of the unlikeliness of him becoming president. There are a tremendous amount of obstacles. I support him despite the knowledge that it may be a lost cause because, in running, he is getting his forward thinking vision into the minds of people who otherwise wouldn't be exposed to such things. And if he were to actually get elected, that would be momentous. It's not out of the question. No one thought Trump had a chance. Did you? but here we are. People are fed up with the mainstream establishment and are willing to gamble on something different and bold.

@RoboGraham No, I did not think Trump would win but I started seeing the "Turn Off" signs in Hillary just like I saw in Al Gore's campaign in 2000. Both looked out of touch with people, not natural leaders.

I like to be with, surround myself with people lik Bernie followers. I like the optimism, the zest, the spirit to fight, wanting things to be better, very active, not passive, the energy... all are beautiful thing.

But we are in politically desperate times. Trump is looking very likely to win and with his aggressive attitude, he can change the political landscape with more voting district maps, voter ID bills etc. in the next 4 years. Too much to risk for principles. I will lie to defeat Trump.

@St-Sinner Desperate times call for desperate measures, like electing a social democrat. It's during times when things are politically chaotic and people feel uneasy that an out of the ordinary candidate has a chance at winning. The only other time a leader like Sanders has ever been elected was during the desperation of the great depression.

If I'm not mistaken, you once told me you would vote Trump if you didn't like the democrat opposing him. Have you had a change of heart?

@RoboGraham Yes, I said that. If I get anyone like Hillary, Dukakis, Al Gore again or if Bernie is nominated, I will vote for Bernie. Because I know none of these were or are winning candidates. I will vote for Trump who is fixing illegal immigration. This issue is close to my heart than health care is.. I was languishing at the embassy doors overseas for 3 years in the 110 degrees Sun and my wife for 4 years immediately after marriage when we were following every law, every rule and were fully honest. My mind just does not accept the idea of people crossing borders illegally and expectating social benefits..I never did that. I want the law to be fair to all.

But if I see a candidate who can beat Trump, I will support a Democratic candidate. I have clarity on this decision.

@St-Sinner
Were you a refugee?
Do you think the wall is a good solution?

@RoboGraham Just look around the world. The majority of the countries around the world have walls and even stricter immigration laws and enforcement. We must stop the illegal immigrant influx from the Central and Latin American countries. Now Iraqi, Pakistani, Somali immigrants started coming at the Southern border and we want to help them? What happened to our embassies and consulates overseas? I went to one and was welcome with a warm smile and was even invited to free documentary in the lush velveted seats in the auditorium with free snacks. Why would I not follow rules of those people?

The answer is yes, we need a wall and it is very good idea.

My question for you is... if you as an aspiring legal immigrant do not want to break the law, why should it bother you? Our embassies in countries have gates open to any one. The United States does not harass people who follow the law like many countries do... there is a harassment by the police, income tax, DMV, traffic cop -- just for money, corruption. The government can get on your ass for anything it pleases. Have you lived outside the U.S.? Not as a visitor but to make a living? If you have not, you may not have the perspective I have.

@St-Sinner No, I haven't which is why I'm curious about your insights.

I'm in favor of diversity but I don't want just anyone coming in. It ought to be done legally. My issue is that we are turning away and caging people who are legitimate refugees fleeing from danger and chaos that our government's policies have created down south. I don't particularly want all those people to come here but we do have a moral and even legal obligation to offer them refugee status.

We need to find a way to keep out the people who don't belong but I don't see a wall as being the best option. Any able bodied person can get over the wall with a rope or ladder. Particularly fit people can just climb it with no assistance at all. They are already cutting wholes in it and driving vehicles through. Tunnels can be dug under it and with so much border, how can the entire thing be monitored? To me, it seems like a massive waste of resources. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't stop people arriving by boat or plain. It is harmful to the environment and it forces people to give up land that many of them don't want to give up.

I think this problem will be solved with modern technology, not ancient methods.

@RoboGraham

1. Caging people is absolutely wrong
2. Turning away from the border is right. The new rule says immigrants must apply in the country of origin just like millions of people in 230 countries in the world do. All do not flock and crowd at the Southern border. The people from central and South American countries are not more special than the people in Africa and Asia
3. Wall is a deterrent, it will make it harder for people to cross over. We have the right to protect our borders. The forefathers of Americans, the early settlers have gone through tremendous hardships and built this country with pride and thoughtfulness. We did not make a second Sicily, or Pakistan or any other 3rd world or corrupt country. We valued our way of life and we have the right to protect it. Just cross the border from Texas into Mexico and see the different what two peoples have built so far. Safety, better infrastructure on one side and a total lack of all on the other. Both used to the same land, same country before.
4. You are right about being compassionate in enforcement of our laws. But allowing the influx in or giving comfortable housing and amenities to illegal immigrants in not compassion while we have homeless and hungry out in city streets. We must prioritize. Don't judge the immigration rules just based on poor implementation by Obama or Trump. Both have been bad at this.

@St-Sinner So you recognize that Trump has implemented immigration rules badly and that caging people at the border is wrong but you are still willing to vote for him? Do you realize that he reduced the number of immigration judges causing people to have to wait longer to be turned away which increased the profits of the his friends who are making money off of caging these people? I'm totally fine with turning away people and having them find refuge elsewhere but this president isn't even doing that right.

Yes we have built a great country and yes we have a right to protect it. I'm saying that a wall is not a smart way to do that. Sure it's a deterrent and sure it makes it a bit harder to cross but the resources spent far outweigh the effectiveness of it as a deterrent. I'm not in very good shape but I guarantee you that if I had a reason to be determined enough, I would get my ass over that wall. Or under it or through it or around it.

Yes we need to address the homelessness crisis and help the hungry. Who is the best candidate to do that? Do I even need to say his name?

@RoboGraham

1. Yes. Obama and Trump both have done badly at treating immigrants. Obama created DACA for voter pandering just before the re-election
2. Reduced immigrant judges etc. are administrative issues. We should not need too many judges to begin with. The crowding at the border has stopped, They all have gone back with a simple rule change. We are welcoming legal immigrants through the regular process. I still think we should encourage merit-based immigration. If a astrophysicist is applying, give him a permanent residency immediately. We rolled out red carpet to Hitler's Nazi scientists after WW II who went on to make the atom bomb while taking shipload of immigrants from concentration camps from Europe
3. The wall is not just a wall. Smart electronics will come, digital monitoring will come, your ass will be photographed and caught if you tried
4. I guarantee there no candidate on either side now who will solve the homelessness issue. Even if they promise, no one will do it if the history of the last 60 years of them is any guidance. Only smart mayors will do it for their own higher careers.

@St-Sinner Right, smart technology will stop people coming in. The actual physical wall is just an expensive rallying cry.

At least DACA was something. It's not their fault they were brought here as children.

Yes I say it should be merit based but also the level of vulnerability of a person should be taken into account. If sending you back is basically a death sentence, you should be allowed to stay.

The homelessness issue is actually a pretty easy one to solve. They lack homes, okay let's build them some housing. With 3d printing technology, bare necessity housing can be produced quickly and cheaply. If we spent a small fraction of what we waste on the military budget on building houses for the homeless, the problem would be solved. We could also subsidize housing for low income people more than we do now and end some of these zoning laws that restrict the amount of affordable housing an area can have. If we make it easier for people to afford a place to live, fewer would end up homeless. We could also create a universal healthcare system which would drastically reduce the monthly expenses of average people leaving them better able to afford housing.

@RoboGraham Every civilized country has a wall, the Vatican has a wall. The threat from unwanted forces has been around from the beginning of time. Compassionate does not mean you drop your pants.

You are arguing like I like Trump. I don't but I am more disappointmented than we are fucking such weaklings and cannot produce a good, strong leader after taking suh beating from Bush, Cheney and now Trump. We were supposed to be righteous, compassionate, caring... so why the heck we are not winning?

@St-Sinner This is not a military defensive wall that he is building. It is not concrete, it has no bunkers or parapets. It is a glorified fence that makes it a bit harder for civilians to cross. If a military force wanted to cross, this wall would be no obstacle at all. Have you ever heard of the Maginot Line? Now that was a true military defensive barrier. Did it do any good? Not even a little bit. Who do we have to fear on our southern border anyway? Mexico?

I don' think you like Trump, you have made that clear. I'm just perplexed that you are able to see how terrible he is but are still entertaining the idea of voting for him. It just does not compute in my mind.

@RoboGraham I see some things Trump delivered that no other president has in the last 40 years. I voted for Obama twice but was terribly disappointed.

@St-Sinner Me too

@K9Kohle789 They did because Obama let them. The house Democrats are opposing everything of Trump but is he not ramrodding his agenda down their throats? Also Obama was whining that the Republicans are treating me like a dog. Is Trump whining? Or is he blasting Democrats on Twitter and in rallies left and right every day? Voters like fighters, not whiners. Trump is winning the communication battle by constantly attacking the Democrats. In spite of his scandals, lying, political mistakes, ethics violations, colluding with Russia.... he is on his way to an easy re-election in 2020. What does that say about Trump, but more importantly, what does that say about the Democrats? I wil tell you... we look like sissies.

Are you a principled voter or a voter who wants our Party to win? Winning always does not give you all or even most you want but it denies the enemy an opportunity to do bigger damage.

@St-Sinner i for one am tired of that issue of choice. We need new direction. Biden is not on my list. I will not support one just because of "winning" i feel Biden would be a loss if elected. I am tired of our run of the mill politicians that are nothing but corporate puppets tossing the goody's back and forth above the peoples heads...

@HerbertNewsam
You are a principled voter. What would you say to those who say... "You are wasting your vote"?

@St-Sinner "i respect my personal decisions as i respect yours" is what i say...

Watch out for Tulsi...She will run as an Independent to siphon votes away from the Democratic Candidate so Trump will win. She is a "Manchurian Candidate."

@nicknotes That may be good if the leftees again coup the dem party.

I am interested in a person that has a grip on reality. Bernie and Warner,... need to emigrate.

I like Tulsi as well. I doubt she will make it in 2020. But I'll wager she'll be primed for 2024. She's still fairly young. And IMHO, she's the only one that really speaks to all, rather than just to party.

Who is "Warner." IMO Bernie is the best candidate. @Jacar

@linxminx Bernie out of touch? There has never been a politician more in touch with the common people in modern times than Bernie Sanders. What does his age, gender, or race have to do with anything?

@linxminx Sure, old white men have disproportionately been in power for far too long and they have ran things to benefit themselves above all others. However, that doesn't make them all bad. To judge Bernie by his age/race/gender is to play identity politics. Judge him on his record. Judge him by his policies. Judge him by his integrity, consistency, tenacity, and leadership.

The man has opposed the traditional old white male patriarchy from the start. He stood up during the civil rights movement. He has always been supportive of a woman's right to choose. He has opposed our foreign wars, the old white male patriarchy's attempts to spread it's power and dominance throughout the world.

He is fighting for the little guy. Healthcare for all, a livable minimum wage, public college, debt relief... despite his old white guyness, he is our best bet for reducing wealth inequality, addressing the climate crisis, and reducing the massive wastefulness of the military industrial complex and the never ending foreign wars.

I get it. We've had a long line of old white men and it's time for a change. If there was a non old white guy running who had half of what Sanders brings to the table, I'd wholeheartedly throw my support behind her. But frankly, unfortunately, that is not the case. So I ask you to please set aside his identity and judge him on his merits.

@linxminx That's great to hear. Thanks for hearing me out.

Most of us do not care about endorsements.

It will never be a ‘person for the people’, money always wins.

@Seeker3CO No. They're all just as worthless as Trump.

Who would you like to see running?

Agree 100%
And that chart heading - 'party elites.....' we see where that got us in 2016. They need to sit down & shut up. mo.

@K9Kohle789 I am trying to force myself to care anymore. This campaign has been going on too long!