I understand if u feel “ ass “ is not appropriate for your vocabulary. I am curious , what’s the problem w spelling “ hell “ out ?

Pascal's Wager is dependent upon if or not a person views heaven as a place they would want to be. To me as a High functioning Asperger's Syndrome person, the sociological nature as generally accepted by believers is so unappealing that I would opt out if given a choice. Now on the other hand, if I could be assured of getting a pony...

I've always thought Pascal's Wager was dishonest and cowardly for the exact reasons you state. Dishonest because if you don't believe and think you are "choosing" to do so, then wouldn't an all-knowing god know of your deception. Cowardly because you are only trying to believe to save your a** from hell.

Also I don't think we choose our beliefs/convictions. You are either convinced of something or you are not. I think being willfully ignorant of something is about as close to making a choice in these regards.

Isn't the whole point of religion to pretend that we know what will happen after we die and if we behave in this life then things will be better in the next life? It's a control system based on a delusion developed to address our irrational fear of death.

As a response to that tendency I wrote this years ago. I call it an inverted Pascal.

What if all of Christianity is a Test like that of Job?

What if God is testing the population of the planet to see who is so despicable that they would paint themselves in his own son's innocent blood to escape Justice?

What if, at the final Judgement, those covered in the innocent blood of the Lamb are condemned for lack of morals and ethics because they scapegoated his innocent child rather than accept personal responsibility as his child tried to teach?

What if you have it backwards Christian?

How could you ever know with the perfect God conducting the test?

Pascal's wager is probably the worst pro Christian argument and certainly the most easily debunked

I recommend a visit to one of the seven body farms. My nearest one is in Tennessee. See the link below. You can see what happens to all of us unless we are cremated. A little reality is good for the spirit.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Faith is pretending to know what you don't know.

Anybody who uses Pascal's Wager as a justification for believing in God is merely flaunting their cognitive inadequacies.

I literally had this argument with my friend yesterday. She says she is a Christian, yet she also involves other belief systems. She told me that she feels that life is a test and that we chose the path we walk before life happens, then when we die, we are reborn to "try again." Essentially, her theory is that life is like a video game (an RPG of sorts), and you have to figure out what you're supposed to learn. She also believes that God is not the tender, loving God that other Christians like to believe. She says that God doesn't care about humanity, yet she also believes in the power of prayer.

shrugs

It is confusing and I just tell her that it is all pointless.

However, we both agree on one thing: you can't know everything, nor can you know what happens after death.

If I remember correctly Pascal's wager is the argument that my sis-in-law and a few others have tried on me a few times. Basically the "what if it's true" scenario. The lazy theist debater's final attempt. My counter every time is "What if it's not?"

Adult site you can use curse words, but confronting beliefs is difficult

Although I've heard it many times from many differen't people. I still love the sentiment. 'what would make me a believer, well. I don't know, but, if there is a God, he/she would know EXACTLY what would change my mind. and has NEVER presented anything to that effect".

IMHO, that is one of the best counters ever.

People fear what they do not know. It's a crap shoot and living on blind faith is all they got going for them nothing more or less.

absolutely KNOWING that there is or is not an afterlife would actually be bad. we become a hedonistic mess and destroy ourselves if not and we also become a hedonistic mess and destroy ourselves if there is. it's the question that makes us continue with hope and reservation.

If they do that, they admit their religion is false. All of their belief lies in the 'sure and certain' way that they'll be taken to heaven if they please their sky-daddy enough.

The Babble goes on & on about it, and so do all their preachers. Why would they Not think they know? And they claim you can repent on your deathbed........ They aren't much for critical thinking, or they would walk away.....

The pope said atheists (and Agnosticists like me) go to heaven anyway if they follow their own consciences.
My mother said god is good so he wouldn't send anyone to hell who didn't deserve it.
I say they're full of it, but nice to know Pascal didn't speak for all believers.
As an agnostic, I think the whole subject is beside the point.
Besides, didn't 'Jesus' (whoever made him up) say the Golden Rule IS the sum total of the law (or something like that)?
There you go.

Pascal is wrong b/c he bet on the wrong god.

despite he who says he knows does not yet know as he ought huh?
ah, some others they hate, No one has ever gone up to heaven, There is only One Immortal, Where I am going you cannot come, You and your sons will be here with me (the dead Samuel to Saul, through the Witch of Endor). All go to the same place on and on

How are christians and atheists the same?
I don't understand what you mean by that.

I've got this theory I'm working on. I'm thinking everyone develops a narrative in their mind that they operate under. Some people are satisfied to be in the forest among the trees and live on that level. These people don't care about religion.

Some people desire a bigger view so they adopt a handy pre-made narrative that fits comfortably in their culture. These are the churchies.

Others aren't satisfied with that and they require an even deeper view. They splinter off in a variety of ways.

The issue is about that narrative. It's challenged all the time and we are forced to come to terms with the errors in it. Until we know the actual truth errors will always come up ... thats how we finally arrive at the truth.

The problem comes with those people who just avoid any adjustment and live in the delusion.