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WHY does the AHA questionnaire keep asking "do you believe---" As a Scientist one doesn't BELIEVE ANYTHING, EVERYTHING IS PROBABILISTIC, How much EMPIRICAL evidence do I have about it?

MichaelRogers3 3 Feb 26
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4

Not all Humanists are Scientists.

2

Please spell out words. I speak English, not Acronym.

What does "AHA" stand for?

American Heart Association

American Historical Association

Alpha Hydroxy Acid

"AHA! You fiend! You are unmasked! Unhand that damsel at once."
That was the word I learned in my youth, when melodrama was in vogue

2

You say, " As a Scientist one doesn't BELIEVE ANYTHING".

If you were a scientist you would know some logic. Your statement is not logical.

You are saying, "As a scientist, one does not accept ANYTHING to be true."

be·lieve
/bəˈlēv/
verb

  1. accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of.

I think it could be reasonably stated that if a person were a scientist and knew their science information, then one would very much believe [FEEL SURE OF THE TRUTH OF] the information they claim as a scientist to know.

Word Level 8 Feb 27, 2020
2

What if the word "believe" were replaced with "accept?" I accept the Theory of Evolution, for example.

@maturin1919 Yes, that is one of several definitions. However "believing" a thing to be true would seem, to me at least, to be more active than passive, whereas the reverse may be said about "accepting" a thing to be true. Also, the word "in" frequently follows the word "believe," which clearly makes this stance one of conviction. To believe in something carries more psychological weight than merely accepting something, which almost sounds like giving in--a capitulation.

2

The word "belief" is ambiguous in its usage. Not everybody is aware of this fact. Where context establishes which meaning is implied, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt.

1

"Everything is probabilistic" Isn't it what you believe? Scientists believe in things, we can't function without beliefs. The real question is about how we justify our beliefs. Scientists believe the earth is spherical because they observed it to be so. Of course, they know it also because they observed it. I'd say the main difference between belief and knowledge is that one can't know without believing but the opposite is not true, it is obviously possible to believe without knowing.

Why do I need beliefs to function? Why can't I have an evidence-based world view instead?

@anglophone It's not mutually exclusive, as a matter of fact the more evidences, the more reasons to believe.

@anglophone Here is an example. We believe that when we go to bed at night we will wake up in the morning. Do we KNOW we will wake up in the morning? No, but we most probably will so we make plans for the next day/week/month/year and so on. We must have beliefs to function even on the most basic level.

@JustAskMe No, I do not believe that I will wake up in the morning. I accept that there is a very high probability that I will wake up in the morning. Having said that, the word "belief" (and its derivatives) have at least three separate meanings. Ping @UltraTerrestre

@anglophone I don't see any problem with belief per say. Again, I believe it is essential to hold beliefs in order to function. What matters seems to be how We justify Our beliefs. For example "I'm in good health and I live in a fairly safe area with all my fire alarms installed etc..." So I believe I will wake up tomorrow and I can book a time to have a coffee with my friends. I could be wrong, anything coud happen but that seems like a reasonnable belief to hold because like you said, probabilities and all that. On another hand "I read a book about a guy who walked on water, died and came back... The book says it's all true so I believe there is a god and when I die I'll go to heaven and the neighbor is going to hell because he doesn't believe what the book said... " I'm trying to make it short but you catch my drift. Belief is not a bad thing in itself but it demands rational justifications in order to make sense and be valuable. In other terms, not all beliefs are equal. I mean, even faith isn't necessarily negative. But to come back as why the AHA uses the word belief, I just think there's nothing wrong with that, beliefs are not opposed to "evidence based", on the contrary, we base our beliefs on evidence, may they be good (my doctors report, the crime statistics in my area and the battery indicators of my fire alarms) or bad evidence (Tora, Bible, Quran...) . Everybody hold beliefs about all sorts of things and to different degrees, what matters is why one holds a belief. I can't recount the number of times someone told me "Oh, you're atheist so you don't believe in anything." Well, no. I believe in many things just trying to ignore bullshit as much as I can.

1

rofl who are you calling a scientist? i'm not a scientist. i'm an atheist; does that mean i have to conduct blind studies on every aspect of my life? (i'd better hire a food-taster, hadn't i?) and not all humanists ARE atheists, and that's why a questionnaire such as the one you describe even exists -- to determine the members' level of religiosity/superstition, if any. so you don't believe in anything? then answer the questions appropriately and someone looking for a "spiritual" guy won't waste his time. someone else may believe in ghosts. that person will answer differently. if you're here for dating, you two won't be getting together -- not because he necessarily eschews members who haven't written bios yet but because you would not be tolerant of his belief in ghosts, or even of the questionnaire that lets you eliminate him from your realm of possibilities because of that belief.

g

1

what is an AHA questionnaire, can you post it?

1

Believe...ugh...
Its a word that means a thought that one cannot reconcile in reality. The empirical evidence doesnt exist...

@maturin1919, i don't think so, a belief is just a thought that cannot be fully reconciled with reality that people want to think as being true. Then they get all worked about it when pressed about its validity...

@maturin1919 looks like the same definition to me, just worded different...if i "believe" accept something as true and it isnt, thats same as, faith that it is true...
People like to try to make it so they can argue over it.
Have a good day. Got work to do...

@maturin1919 Whereas, I think the same thing, i think there is a huge difference between accepting something as true because of evidence. The preponderance of evidences in lifes reality where these god figures have no existence, i think a mentally ignorant "belief" or insane thoughts in these existences is quite problematic....

0

Because they are not using believe in a faith based way.
Rather they are using it in a colloquial fashion, ie "do you believe your car will start next time you start it?"
Chances are yes you do "believe" that (trust based upon evidence of your own car), but there is no faith involved.
Religion equates the term believe with faith, belief in unsupported things lacking any evidence at all.

This is another term religion hijacked eons ago, but it is still used both ways and is constantly conflated.

0

According to the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary, the word belief can mean (1) a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing; (2) something believed, esp: a tenet or body of tenets held by a group; (3) conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon esp. when based on examination of evidence.

Most atheists believe in reason and evidence as sources of knowledge, e.g. science. "Belief" can also refer (of course) to religious tenets. And based on my own reason, experiences, and observations, that most other human beings are like me in that they have the capacities to reason and to feel emotions.

0

Belief is existential. When you act, if you act on the assumption that something is true because you believe it but do not know it, what is the difference between acting on an assumption that something is true because you know it? Does belief submit to all the same Epistemology as any kind of knowledge? I don't think so. Belief is the application of knowledge. You can know something, but you only believe it when risking something to that knowledge.

Physics sets limits on the amount of knowledge required for a reasonably consistent consensus of "belief" in a theory by calculating statistical confidence of all the evidence together. At some point, the data we can look back at explains 99.99999% of everything that will happen in the future. How much is the theory worth: 99.99999, and how much is the doubt worth: alpha=0.00001. So we can use statistical confidence measure of alpha to limit the amount of evidence we need to believe in a theory/model.

Financial markets only need an alpha of 0.49999 to identify a winning bet. How much do you believe in that financial strategy? If there are other ways to use the same fungible resources, maybe we want something with a little higher confidence, but anything better than 50% is good enough to make some profit or at least break even over time.

0

Absolutely correct. Even if we say we “believe” something mundane, as a non-scientist, we are ultimately just weighing whether the claim or information is reasonable based on the what we are perceiving through our potentially faulty senses. Belief is opinion. Hope that made sense 😊

0

Scientists that only use empirical evidence, will never know the truth. Logical evidence must be accepted to understand infinite concepts.

gater Level 7 Feb 27, 2020
0

In what???

Seems money talks and BS walks, so they tell me!!!

0

That is a good point, but there are those of us who are on the fence, and not asimovian atheists, which I think is within the definition of agnostic.

@ToolGuy As usual you have the agnostic dead wrong.
But to get off the merry-go-round for a second, and speaking strictly for myself and not all Agnostics, I'm an atheist on a Supreme Deity, okay? No purple dragons in my garage, no fairy cities in the sky.
I'm AGNOSTIC about if there is some other definition of 'god.'
Not an Entity who answers prayers and in general micromanages my life, not one which created the world in seven days, not a Jehovah or an Allah or anyone like that.
E=mc√ means energy and matter are two forms of the same thing. It means EVERYTHING is the same thing.
Light is a particle under an electronic microscope, a wave viewed by a spectrometer. But it cannot be both, which means it is neither; it is something else entirely. So they call it a 'wavicle.'
It wasn't long ago we didn't have these instruments. How long before we have even more advanced ones which further boggle our minds?
The Big Bang is losing out these days to the Big Bounce, which postulates the universe expands to a certain point, stops expanding, then begins to contract, eventually reaching maximum density and explodes outward again.
Unlike the Judeo-Christian idea, this means there never was a time it didn't exist and was created. It's always been here. And will never come a time it ceases to exist
All this means is there is no need to imagine a 'god' who created it, and will some day destroy it or transform it or whatever.
So if we are to imagine a concept we can label 'god,' it has to be something completely different than what most of us were brought up to believe.
Just like Einstein completely transformed our ideas if what the physical universe is, to the point all we DO know is our five senses give us an entirely misleading, inaccurate, incomplete picture.
So too our idea of what 'god' is. The fact is, we have no idea. To even talk about the subject, we'd need a mathmatically precise nomenclature not currently within our grasp.
So that's what agnosticism is to me, as poorly expressed as it is.

@Storm1752 geez. Pal, when was the last time your meds were adjusted?

@ToolGuy Light is not a particle. It's electromagnetic radiation.

0

In my lifetime I find that many things I had once believed have changed. This can be both religious or non-religious thought and happens because we are constantly changing. I know this and yet I hate change.

0

Saying that you believe or disbelieve something is nothing but a statement about yourself, of little interest to your peers. What the peers are interested in are evidence and logic pro and con.

Truth is not absolute and it is illogical to believe absolutely. If Einstein had believed in Newton’s laws absolutely he would not have developed Relativity. Aether theory was well established and settled in 1890, but was deposed by quantum mechanics. If you believe absolutely in Darwin’s theory of evolution as taught in schools in 1960, then you are not in accord with epigenetics. If you believe absolutely in the CO2 theory of global warming, you might be in for a surprise, or not.

I lean toward thinking I will go back to bed.

0

What is the "AHA?"

I was wondering the same.
There are two I can think of.
American Heart Association. And, American Health Association. But I think neither of those fit that kind of question. I would like to know what they were referring to as AHA.

My favourite band! 😁

AHA is the American Humanist Association.

Anyway, as an agnostic I believe lots of things.
I KNOW using MY eyes the sky is blue.
I believe (think) the L.A. Lakers are the best team in the NBA this year.
I also 'believe IN' them in the sense I think they have the 'heart' and 'guts' to win the championship. In this context ability and skill alone will not be enough, so to predict a championship one must have FAITH they also possess an indefinable, intangible, yet necessary, 'character.'
So, I think if the AHA is asking for an OPINION, 'belief' is the right word.
If there asking for anything more, 'belief IN;' that is, FAITH, is required.
As far as 'knowing' goes, however, as an agnostic there are very few things I'll admit to having absolute certainty about, outside of self-evident definitions.
(Btw, my faith in the Lakers is not sufficiently strong I'll put any money on them.)

0

We all have stuff that we believe without checking. If you had to check everything you would go crazy.
But sometimes it is important to remember things like.

"O don't believe in evolution, I accept the vast number of evidences that shows evolution is a valid model"

Believe is a good Approximation, you loose some precision, but you save a lot of time in the speech.

I believe I'm alive.
I don't believe IN my own existence.

0

Yes. A question we worked on during a few philosophy of science classes I took years ago had to deal with the self referebcing problems inherent in the scientific method. Is the method itself falseifiable? I cane to think of it as a heristic not an algoritium. A procedure that allows one to find ways to test and challenge generalizations about facts and/or patterns in nature.

Why does the Scientific Method need to be falsifiable? I am content with the observation that it produces more useful models of the natural world than any other method I have so far encountered.

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