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So...I’ve been dating a Christian woman. She is perfectly aware of my stance on the supernatural and has described herself as a more “liberal Christian”. The other night we had a discussion that prompted me to ask her views on evolution vs. creation. She conveyed the typical “its just a theory” argument, showing that she was unaware of the distinction between the common misuse of the word and what an actual scientific theory is. I explained the difference but she was still doubting me.
Does anyone have experience with these types of discussions? Any advice as to how to help her understand these distinctions, given her predisposed notion of creationism?

By Singledad764
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37 comments

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0

Google shit, say booya, end.

1

You need to have a conversation with her about what it would mean to alter her beliefs not about the logic of the beliefs themselves. You could use a scaling approach for example where 10 is "No way the world will end and I will die" and 0 is "I am open to another way of thinking about it." See where she falls. Share with her what is it like for you to change a belief? Where are you on the scale. Changing beliefs is threatening to all people to some degree on that scale. It arouses anxiety because we have to go through a phase of uncertainty and ambiguity. You may find it helpful to read Why Bad Beliefs Don't Die by Gregory Lester (4 pages) and talk with her about the article if she will read it and discuss it with you.

ToolGuy Level 8 Apr 18, 2018
1

For me, it is the difference between science and metaphysics.

Scientific theory is based on empirical, testable data. Evolution is like this.

Metaphysics uses faith other untestable logic.

Creationism is a perfectly valid metaphysics theory. There is no way to test it empirically, though.

0

I moved in with a Catholic woman. Despite the meaning of the name, her world was very, very small. It was a trainwreck because I was treated like an intruder in it. OTOH, David Silverman, Mr. Deity, and Seth Andrews are all married to Christians, so what do I know?

0

But, thinking about it, why do you date a Christian woman anyway. You must think that she has potency of becoming wiser. Christian parents don't like that their daughter is dating someone that doesn't take the Bible for granted. So in anyway there will be trouble on the way. But again, she can be worth it.

Gert Level 7 Apr 6, 2018
0

Grand Canyon show her the layers and ask her if God built the earth in layers and layers like making a wax candle, in one day? And how does she think the age is brought into those layers? How their age is building up from deep down the Colorado River up to the highest level? Just an idea.

Gert Level 7 Apr 6, 2018
1
El-loco Level 7 Apr 6, 2018
0

Well, I dated a Baptist for a short time. That went well!
Your relationship is doomed. Sorry to say...

1

My experience was that after a long discussion where I laid out all my points articulately, persuasively, convincingly, incontrovertibly, lucidly, we never saw each other again. Lol

Geoff Level 5 Apr 5, 2018
0

it's only going to be an issue if you make it an issue. If dating a Christian is okay with you, there's no point in pushing beliefs on each other.

0

A creationism theory is base on stories, myth, legends and very weak historical facts. I think most Christians threw out the concept of hell because they did not think it was nice. Even though JESUS speaks about hell as much as heaven.

A Christian prepared their whole life to go to heaven, (a theory) Why? even the Pope says hell dose not exist, what is there to loose now.

0

She may not have a clear understanding of what a theory truly is..

Any person who believes a dead man is going to return from the heavens and save us all should have no problem contemplating the supernatural.

1

Be careful. If she is a "true believer" her belief in religious dogma forms the core of her whole personality and mindset. If that is the case, she will never be onvinced about evolution.

If she is a true believer, are you really sure that you an deal with this for the rest of your life?

1

Any decent relationship has to be based on mutual respect. Instead of telling her what you think, why not ask her what she thinks and why she believes what she does? Listen respectfully and keep asking until you feel you really understand her position. Then decide in your own time if you can respect that.

Gareth Level 7 Apr 5, 2018
1

You have "christian" + "woman", but you are fixating on a small event in the "christian" part, for starters.

Anyway, if you're going to have the argument with her, then have it.

Agreed. have the conversation. It may seem like you are instigating a break up, when in reality, you are setting a precedent to who you are and what you want. If she's religious, it will only grow stronger in time.

Those who guided her into the faith will make sure she doesn't leave it. It has to be of her own will. You can try saving her, but really the choice is hers, and hers alone.

0

Why I Am Not a Christian is an essay by the British philosopher Bertrand Russell. Originally a talk given 6 March 1927 at Battersea Town Hall, under the auspices of the South London Branch of the National Secular Society, it was published that year as a pamphlet and has been republished several times in English and in translation.

Russell begins by defining what he means by the term Christian and sets out to explain why he does not "believe in God and in immortality" and why he does not "think that Christ was the best and wisest of men", the two things he identifies as "essential to anybody calling himself a Christian". He considers a number of logical arguments for the existence of God and goes into specifics about Christian theology. He argues ad absurdum against the "argument from design", and favors Darwin's theories.

Russell also expresses doubt over the historical existence of Jesus and questions the morality of religion, which is, in his view, predominantly based on fear.

Jacar Level 8 Apr 5, 2018
1

A scientific theory explains why a phenomenon occurs AND can be repeatedly tested to produce the same result.

Ask her to use theory to explain something from her religion.

Marz Level 7 Apr 5, 2018

And maybe add to that an explanation (theory) of why bread rises and that this is certainly repeatable under the right circumstances. Put it in terms she can relate to in real life.

I’m not trying to start an argument...just get her to comprehend the base understanding of a theory.

2

Discernment is the key. Does she focus on the dogma of religion? Personally, faith in a "supreme being is not that objectionable to me. It's the silly interpretations of the rules one must live by to belong to that religion that drive us crazy. If she is a "liberal christian" and has numerous likeable traits. Continue the discussion.
I have a science degree but "theory" has levels of truth. I accept evolution but is it absolute truth? I stick to the definition of absolute truth as, a theory that has been validated by recreating in the study the same results. I don't accept the "big bang" theory on another scientific idea, stated simply, matter can't come to existance from a void. Matter is never destroyed just change form. If one doubts a singular theory then other doubt is warranted.
I'm waiting for a logical reason why this all began. Otherwise, I'll hold onto my 0.1% openness to a "god", ancient alien, intradimensional being, ect...having something to do with creation.

3

Refer her to the Pope's thoughts on the subject, he believes in evolution. Only in America is there any real traction for Creationism, the rest of the Christian world, except for the rare fundamentalists, Jehovah's Witnesses and such, gave that up a long time ago.

Kimba Level 7 Apr 5, 2018

Unfortunately, many Christians don’t believe the Catholics are “real Christians”...lol! No true Scotsman!

5

Richard Dawkins on the theory of gravity seems to always be the best go-to example. "If you doubt it, you're free to jump out of a 10 story window and see what happens."

Malara Level 5 Apr 5, 2018
1

Unless she is a supermodel millionaire who owns a chain of breweries..... why are you dating this thicko?

3

My question for you is that could you be with someone who believes that Creationism is the truth? If you like her and don't mind tolerating it, I say keep the peace and do not provoke her religious convictions. People will advise her to let you go.

She may have built up a theological system around her religious beliefs, and challenging Creationism is not a simple conversation on Creationsim vs. Evolution, but really challenging her stance on if her religious beliefs are a scam or not.

That would like be asking if ghosts exist, or if people can be possessed by spirits\demons\devils. It's gonna open up a whole bunch of questions which will get bigger than the original question.

Nikonian Level 5 Apr 5, 2018
1

This could be a great test case; it depends on whether or not you're boinking her. The council of Nicea derived a "creed" w/r/t the salvatory, redemptive, expiative, and unified nature of Christ. The creed was more or less novel relative to many practices of Chritianity during the previous two hundred years. For the sake of argument, let's say the council did the equivalent work of a symposium postulating the existance and properties of Population III stars. Like Nicea, the symposium had no hard observations of these supposedly earliest stars. Unlike Nicea, the symposium was not held under lock and key or at sword point. Unlike the symposium, "publish or perish" had orders of magnitude more importance for Nicea. Each group had a literal and fundamental belief in a text. The symposium had a literal belief in the post-recombination properties of hydrogen and helium. Nicea held a fundamental and literal view of the entirety of the Bible. Both groups supported their positions by information from their texts.

So. Your friend proposes to you a Theory of Liberal Christianity. And again, this all hinges on the boinking. One may accept Jesus Christ as a god in three persons with unconditional salvatory and redemptive power for all who accept him as such and then go and sin no more, except for the boinking. Can your friend support this theory? Is there any backup?

For your part, you can point to the observed facts about what happens when random atoms and molecules crash into each other (they form minimum energy states) and what happens when energy hits a region with abunch of cheicals (they organize themeselves to absorm and emit the energy) and so on down the line to micelles and DNA.

For the symposium, the Theory of Population III stars is in big trouble, at a minimum it's off by about 60% time-wise. So a new symposium can be called and everyone can get to work finding out why they were wrong.

But when the Theory of Nicean Christianity meets the Theory of Liberal Christianity, the response is "you're going to hell" or "We'll kill you" or whatever.

andygee Level 7 Apr 5, 2018

Yeah. But it's also all about the boinking.

@MrLizard so if the boinking is strong I could get her to change her mind? If that holds true, than on some scale I have been able to disprove creationism, thus making my cock stronger than god?
Lol! Sorry had to go on a Dennis Loubet-type fallacy intro there!

@Singledad76 I don't know if you can change her mind, but you can definitely get her to a place where she can think about things a little more objectively. DON'T ACTUALLY TRY THIS THOUGH. I just realized that she could wind up going full Nicean and cut you off until you marry her.

3

That too me it would be like me dating a Trump woman. She may be nice but really is missing a few items upstairs. The "core" of a person is can we trust you to believe the truth, such as when you say you did not or did do something, it is the truth. And of course I mean no lying on your part. For her the truth is not part of the core, she is not questioning the real core items of life.
Fake news, fake numbers and some believe this junk

EMC2 Level 8 Apr 5, 2018
3

One of many reasons I simply refused to date religious people anymore.

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