Its shocking to see the decline and fall of the American intellect. Will this lead to the ultimate demise of the American dynasty. A harkening back to a new version of the Dark Ages in America where conspiracy theories, religious superstition, reign over facts and knowledge.
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Whoa there negative nelly...uh, nick, take a break from the news. The news is an echo chamber of all the bad and contravertial stuff. Ignore it for a bit, focus on the good parts, theres a lot of it, much much more than the bad.
MakeItGood
Level 7
Sep 7, 2020
2
As a high school science teacher of 33+ years I've witnessed the decline of the ability and amount of prior knowledge of the students that come to me with each year. The intellectual decline is a real phenomenon. It is not a subtle difference, but a significant difference. Teachers and schools, all the way up to and including college, have had to dummy down their curriculum each year.
A lot of it is due the change in parenting in which less time is being spent with their children and making sure that they are actually completing the work assigned them. Fewer parents are keeping tabs on their child's progress until its too late. Parents are not making their children accountable and are not being accountable themselves.
Before you blame the teachers, since the passing of NCLB (No Child Left Behind), teacher certification has become more rigorous and expectations increased Nationwide. Most teachers, K-12, are expected to work for advanced degrees in the field they teach. Their pay is tied to their academic progress and re-certification every 5 years is tied to the number of classes they attend.
Because money for each school is tied to the grades and success of the student population on nationally normal exams, the pressure upon teachers to do more with less is ever present. Commensurate with the decline in student intellectual ability the normative tests have been dumbed down somewhat.
@t1nick yeah possibly, but it seems most people don't need a good education to succeed. And the barriers and competition is so high that a good high school education still requires sacfrificing a lot money and time. Doing well only seems to invite more suffering (learning lol)
I spent 10 years and over 500k in oppoutunity cost lost in colleges getting degrees in computer sciences. The best salary I can hope for is an average of about $120k working for the big four. The only education in high school i ended up needing is English, Math, and computer science. I don't even remember what other classes I took. (Honestly colleges now assume high school education is terrible and reteach what is needed, like physics biology and chemistry.)i recall taking history and spanish, but forgot everyrhing since high school and not needed it at all.
I have seen hundreds of examples of people without a good education do very well. They pick a skill and focus on it. In fact I now see the rise in microeconomies of YouTube and podcasting where people with essentially no education make 6 to 7 figures incomes playing video games, reacting to tv shows, or teaching online. I know people with high school education, basically learn programming online and make as much as an entry level programmer. Then they make Udemy videos teaching what they learned and end up making more than their salary in a month. Or they make an App and make millions. I see college students debating what oppourtunities they will lose while getting a "good education" that will end up not meaning much other that being labeled "well educated".
It seems, in retrospect, that high school produces about 20% of its students that do really well in science and engineering and go off to college and do advanced degrees. These people end up either staying in acafemia doing research or go into industry. These people create the innovative tech that drives the rest of the economy. Those with talents that high school can't teach, end up spending time outside of school developing their talent, and make money utlizing the new tech to promote their talent in some way. Those with no talent or degrees end up working in the service industry, (repair, restaurants etc). In fact so much money can be made in such induustries I know scientists and engineers who quit thier job to open up repair and restaurants because they make more money using less advanced skills, and they are their own boss, essentially not using anything from high school apart for math and english.
Yes there has been a decline in the population with a decent education. And we have to consider that it may be by choice. At some point there will be too much to learn. People will have to make a choice what not to learn. And the label of "well educated" may be too much to learn and at too high a price of time and money.
Everything you are describing are generally exceptions and not the rule. Yes people do succeed without a high school or college education. but education is a lot more than just content facts. It about building critical thinking skills and problem solving and having the ability to communicate what you know.
I saw the trend for job slotting during my second undergraduate degree in the 80's. Only teach me what I need to know what I need for the job I want, screw the well rounded education aspect of getting an education. These types proliferated among the engineers and business types. They were lousy citizens then and are still lousy citizens now. they went on to become the people that we see running the country today.
@MakeItGood Yes, all that is true, but you are only talking about how far eduction can take you in relation t how much money you can make. If we only learn so we can make as much money as possible then it is a sad world.
Its almost as if you both think the right education will make people better human beings. That is very dangerous assumption and thinking. It will not help and it places too much faith in education. I think there is ample evidence that a good education does not make a good person.
Has nothing to do with "goidness" or "badnss". It has more to do with developing certain intellectual skills: problem solving, fact and credibility discernment, critical thinking, organization, and a broad base of general knowledge.
A high school or college does not automatically guarantee these skills become well-refined. People are capable of learning the formulaic way to get by enough to walk away with a piece of paper.
Likewise, people who do not fit well in the academic environment is no indication that they can not be good problem.solving. in fact many intelligent people who think outside the box often do not fit well within the academic environment.
But if we are talking numbers, IMO, those that attend college in shears statitical numbers make better critical thinkers than those that do not. Again there are exceptions, but exceptions do not make the rule.
@MakeItGood No I do not think education makes a better person. You still can be a horrible human being no matter how well educated you are. I like education for the sake of being informed and for the joy of learning.
This is not accidental. The Republican party, at all levels. has sought to de-fund, cripple, and damage public education. Their intent has been to create a population incapable of informed, independent critical thinking.That strategy has been in effect for the last 30 years.
wordywalt
Level 9
Sep 6, 2020
14
Lol you got that right there......just look at the Bible Belt
LiterateHiker
Level 9
Sep 6, 2020
9
The American dynasty became a lot like duck dynasty.
Misinformation from the right has always been a problem, but Sarah Palin was ground zero for the current gathering of idiocracy.
Trump saw it and pounced on it and turned it up to ten.
With QAnon and an openly racist president, it has gotten so far out of hand I don't think we'll ever recover.
Even if Biden wins he's to moderate to bring us back.
To quote C3PO..."We're doomed"
DavePeet
Level 5
Sep 6, 2020
7
Biden has spent more time courting the people who brought us Sarah Palin than he has progressive democrats. Specifically, Steve Schmidt (co-founder of the Lincoln project and "discoverer" of Palin) and Nicole Wallace. I hope you are wrong and we are not doomed, but I still have hope that we are not.
Actually it began in 1983 with Reagan's second run for office. It officially became a part of the Republican platform that year. I'm not being sarcastic or flippant, it did start then.
We are already the most backward First world country there is. People just don't get the whole American religiousness and with good reason.
DavidLaDeau
Level 8
Sep 6, 2020
6
I'm not so sure American intellect was ever in such abundant supply. I think we have a tendency to romanticize the past. That's not to say that some things aren't worse today, however, but I don't think it's because the average person is dumber now; we just have more opportunity to spread conspiratorial nonsense and superstition and fear/hate than we've ever had before. Human nature has always lent itself to such failings, but never before have we had the tools to organize our darker impulses than with the advent of the internet and, especially, of social media. And it's that unification of irrationality that has eroded the trust in, and respect for, expertise and facts, allowing hate-mongering and buffoonery to be elected to high office by an unwavering, substantial minority who don't believe their candidate is capable of wrongdoing and, when faced with irrefutable evidence, ultimately don't care. The willfully ignorant and the morally bankrupt have always existed, but they've never felt so emboldened as they do now and they've never before had the organized agency to make their knee-jerk reactions public policy. Unfortunately, it's not just a matter of the disenfranchised taking up this mantle, because I think that would eventually run out of steam, but we also have a deep schism between the far right and the far left that continues to fuel the conflict, and this polarization leaves an ever-shrinking middle ground for civility and effective governance to take place. We can see similar division taking place all around the world, but the United States seems to be leading that charge.
resserts
Level 8
Sep 6, 2020
5
I don't think the far left is extreme as the far right at this point in time. In fact I think of the establishment democrats as pretty conservative and the progressive faction to be "main stream". In any case, I still think that there is a chance that when the middle of the road candidate (Biden) is elected and some of our institutions are restored, the loud minority will start to crawl back under the rocks from which they came. I think that when challenged these people are cowards. That's what I think, anyway
@MyTVC15 No, I don't think the far left is as bad as the far right, but still not good. The extremes tend to be harmful, but in different ways. Regardless, I do agree with you about establishment Democrats being rather conservative (or, more to the point, corporatists who favor the status quo). I do hope you're right that a moderate Democrat in the White House will drive the worst of the right — the racist, sexist, xenophobic ones who have been most vocal — back underground. I'm not holding my breath, however, and I'm not at all confident that Biden will win the swing states he needs to overtake Trump. I'm preparing for another four years of this nightmare.
I’m afraid you are correct. Ever since Reagan I’ve seen an accelerating decline. The beast (government) is being starved to death. End of empire. 
ADKSparky
Level 8
Sep 6, 2020
4
Im glad I'm not the only one that traces it back to Raegan. It began with the Republican re-election campaign of 1983.
Reagan and his f**** ''moral majority" crap. Not to mention the 'war on drugs'!
Reagan and the Republican Party officially embraced and vociferously campaigned against intellectualism in their platform. They openly campaigned that Demoncrats were so elite and overly educated to be in touch with the common American, insinuating that intelligence was a bad thing. They built on that platform each year until you see where it has gotten us. ......trump. Nunez, P. Navarro.& Jordan, just for examples.
Most of the "great" civilizations on this rock have risen and fallen.
Granted, most of them managed to survive for several thousand years, but NOOOOO,
not us.
We couldn't even make it one thousand years.
As I said in another thread recently, I hate us, we suck.
Humans are the only species who are the architects of their own demise.
Given what we've done to this country, and the planet, we've got it coming.
KKGator
Level 9
Sep 6, 2020
5
@creative51 The Ancient Egyptian empire lasted about 3,000 years.
My point remains.
Look at where our governing principles came from, in part... The old Roman Republic. Look what happened to them. The easiest way to say it is that stupid people are reproducing faster than smarter people. Watch the stupid, cornball movie Idiocracy... It is happening.
You have a solid 35%-40% of the American population who thinks Trump is their savior. They buy into lies, distortions and distractions so easily. When the stupid people reproduce at rate where these percentages move to 50%-55%... America, as we know it, will fall. We are already on our way.
RiverRick
Level 7
Sep 7, 2020
5
Your totally right. Many of those who bought into the lies were hurting, unemployed, and were desperate. Given these circumstances, you’ll tend to see anything that sounds good can be true. Being in New York, I’ve known about Trump nearly my whole life and many of his past deeds. Nobody here can stand him. My gut instinct tells me the real reason he left here is not because of taxes like he claims, but because he’s vulnerable to assassination. There are tens of thousands of people in the area of Trump Tower at 5 Ave. and E.57 St. at any given time of day as well as the high rise skyscrapers nearby. This will make it fairly easy to pick him off even if he has the Secret Service and Bodyguards nearby and the shooters could be gone in a very short time.
I get the impression that it's happening in the UK as well. For example. In the late eighties one of our summer job employees was telling us how much she enjoyed 'analytical history' at school. This was a comparatively new subject at the time and dealt with things like primary and secondary evidence and where to find them. Several months or maybe a year later, a certain John Major at a Conservative Party conference, stated that he would return state education to basic values (the three Rs) and that history classes would return to rote learning of events and dates. It occurs to me that if you teach the general population how to analyze the past, they can also analyze the present and be more able to to spot when they are being fed B.S. And that, of course, would never do!!
Paul_Clamberer
Level 7
Sep 7, 2020
5
Humanity is weird. Almost everyday I think to myself, “what weird times we’re living in.” And it’s not just the pandemic, it’s all these crazy people espousing their crazy beliefs. Where lines between political and religious has become so blurred, it’s cultish. I’m highly disappointed in the general masses at the moment. Why is America so anti-intellectual?
AgeofReason
Level 5
Sep 6, 2020
5
MizJ:
One theory from Isaac Asimov [openculture.com]
Varn:
Being ‘anti-intellectual’ appears the easiest choice.. I’ve come to feel, and notice, that here in the US we’ve the best educated crop of (relative) youth, ever. Two are mine! But, with college debt seemingly forever, home ownership nearly inconceivable, and few jobs requiring ‘that level’ of education, many educations appear to be going to waste..
Regarding the ignorant cultish behavior you’ve/ we’ve noticed … it seems that prior to trump, there were a shitload of suicides from those I suspect are/ were members of that ‘cult.’ With trump, they’ve someone causing enough misery to our best - that these suicidal sickos have decided to hang around … even wave their flag (be it US, confederate, or trump), and cheer on his brand of destruction… I’m hoping it’s their last hurrah 
I think we're already there. In 2016, there were enough morons to vote Chump into the White House. 
I just hope the election will go better this year. 
BIDEN / HARRIS 2020! 
BestWithoutGods
Level 8
Sep 6, 2020
5
In 2016 it was shocking to see the people who had never voted before pouring out to support a reality, low rent, TV 'star'.
@creative51 If the democrats win the senate and the presidency we just might see an end to the electoral college.....about damn time too
We're learning to become a global community.
Mistakes are being made.
The world gets smaller every day.
Willow_Wisp
Level 8
Sep 6, 2020
4
like it or not for some, we already are a global community
@Redneckliberal Global is fine with me. The part that really, really, gets me is the willful ignorance!
The corporatists have already extracted max wealth from the country and moved on. For over 30 years they (the corporations) have extracted over 21 trillion dollars out of the US economy while funding the growth of 3rd world counties for their cheap labor and resources.
The 50 year goal is to destabilize the American economics system to the point that once they've exploited other countries and the populations are now sufficiently educated that they demand equality and equal pay. That only then will corporations consider transplanting manufacturing and production jobs back into the US. However, with the increase in automation using AI and robotics the production jobs won't return.
Meanwhile the ability to advance and or grow the intellect of the nation will only come from the coasts while the whole of middle and southern states of America rots with ignorance and religosity in a endless feedback loop of misery and destitute squalor.
RobertFoley
Level 6
Sep 7, 2020
4
I don't think it's only an American thing. It looks more to me like a worldwide thing. Tyrants tend to control and concentrate the information at the top while dumbing down the masses.
QuidamOutrepont
Level 8
Sep 7, 2020
3
Agreed, but I was mostly concerned with the US in this post.
Well this is rather sad thought. I do hope America and Americans manage to redeem the situation. You decide, I suppose, but so many feel it’s out of their hands and that’s part of a Worldwide problem 
girlwithsmiles
Level 8
Sep 6, 2020
3
I heard the prediction many years ago when I was a freshman in college that the USA was already showing signs of going down like Rome. And now that we have Nero fiddling while Rome burns, I think the end might come sooner rather than later. But I have hope that this was just a horrible spell that we will bounce back from. but maybe I am being too optimistic.
MyTVC15
Level 7
Sep 6, 2020
4
Unfortunately, I think that prediction was right. There is a breakdown everywhere you look. It goes way deeper than the nacho in cheese. It can be seen in communities and homes. Hopefully, just one more person wakes up each day and says to themselves 'Enough!'.
We, and our resources would be carved up and redistributed around the world. If Putin’s goal was to shed doubt on democracy ..it’s currently working.
If we were capable of staying the course for longer than a couple years after electing a decent President & Congress, our chance for survival would be much improved..
Varn
Level 8
Sep 7, 2020
3
Trump has been more effective for Putin in destroying America than a nuke, andca hell of a lot cheaper. Unfortunately, reoairing all the damage done by Trump & his ilk, and our decades long gradule drift in to decline will not be fixed quickly. It will take decades to fix our governance.....if we are lucky. It is always easier to break things than to fix them.
I don't think Putin had much to do with it, he doesn't have to you are all doing a very good job there yourselves.
@Varn Oh, are you talking about me "envying" the fact that people don't have health care there, have to work several jobs just to pay the rent, don't have enough of money to feed their children or perhaps you think I "envy" US for their blatant hypocrisy of starting wars in countries that they intend to bring "democracy" to.
It will . . . . China and Russia do not have even close to the the kind of idiots they make here, the people who control this country do not want people who think critically, people who can think critically are much more difficult to control.
Archeus_Lore
Level 7
Sep 7, 2020
3
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