FROM LECTURES ON DOSTOEVSKY BY JOSEPH FRANK
What exactly does "faith" mean? As in "religious faith", "faith in god," etc. Isn't it basically crazy to believe in something that there is no proof for? Is there really any difference between what we call faith and some primitive tribe's sacrificing virgins to volcanoes because they believe it will produce good weather?How can someone have faith before he's presented with sufficient reason to have faith? Or is somehow needing to have faith a sufficient reason for having faith? But then what kind of need are we talking about?"
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11 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Preface: To those who would conflate religious faith with the common use of the term, synonymous with words like 'trust' or 'confidence,' please save your ammo.
In the New Testament book of Hebrews, Paul defines faith as follows:
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Hebrews 11:1 (KJV)
If ever there were a bewildering definition of 'nothing' this is certainly it. In my experience, things one might hope for are entirely without substance, and unseen things are inadmissible as evidence. But there you have it!
As a nullifidian (one who is without faith), I much prefer the definition offered by Peter Boghossian, who views faith as "a virus" and "an unreliable reasoning process that will not take you to reality." In short, Boghossian defines faith as "pretending to know things you don't know."
Need we continue to argue?
p-nullifidian
Level 8
Mar 9, 2021
0
Trust = Assurance, reliability, etc, etc. Whereas,
FAITH = "take your chances," NO Assurance/s, No Reliability/Reliabilities and a whole lot of maybes, assumptions and presumptions thrown in for good measure.
Trust can be earned, shown and proven, Faith cannot, it IS merely an assumption, ergo I'll take Trust over Faith any day of the week thank you.
Triphid
Level 9
Mar 8, 2021
1
Faith, from a religious perspective seems futile at best. But faith does play a part in human life. For example, I have faith in my spouse. Without that the relationship would be in taters. I have faith that the restaurant will provide a good meal, and if they fail for any reason , make up for it.. in these examples, faith is earned over time.
In religion, it is one-sided, and faith is never earned.
Canndue
Level 8
Mar 7, 2021
6
Is it NOT merely TRUST in your Spouse rather than FAITH that you have perhaps?
Do you have TRUST that your Spouse is true to you and you alone rather merely having the FAITH that he/she really is?
The word FAITH is a very ambiguously used word is it not, with almost countless meanings, etc.
Whereas 'TRUST' is an instinctually driven emotion that is derived and grows from knowing from experience, knowledge and skills, etc, etc, gained for example.
We LEARN to TRUST ourselves and others from what we experience from them, the same goes with our own abilities, skills, talents, capabilities and the like.
We TRUST that others will treat us as we treat them and TRUST that are as decent as we are BUT we learn about them through trusting them as we go along.
To my way of thinking, WHEN a person says to, " Have Faith in me," it rings instinctual Alarm bells because cannot be earned where Trust has to be earned.
The old saying, "A Leap of Faith" imo, means simply " Don't look, don't think, just do and hope for the best," somewhat akin to the old adage about when someone shakes your hand and pat you on the back and says, " Have Faith in me," IS he/she merely being friendly OR is he/she simply using his/her free hand to seek out the best place in which to stab you in the back?
Conversely, imo, when someone tells me, "Trust me," I see as being that THEY are putting THEIR reputation on the line with those words rather than using a bit 'banter' to ease your doubts, etc.
@Canndue In my somewhat educated opinion here, Trust is something that is gained, earned, learned, etc, etc from lessons, experiences, etc, and can be often relied upon.
Whereas Faith, for example, is based SOLEY upon either Wishful/Hopeful thinking OR, in the case of Religious beliefs, something that one is TOLD that one MUST have or thrust upon you by those around you, i.e. " Blind Faith."
It is easier for 'faith' to let you down when you most need it than it is for 'trust' do so, imo.
One can have TRUST in a Mechanic, Electrician, Builder/Carpenter, etc, etc, because he/she has, more often than not, the documentary evidence and previous tasks available to SHOW that he/she IS Trustworthy.
Whereas, on the other hand, FAITH is merely nothing more a Presumption/Assumption that it IS there.
@Triphid
Like many words, there are multiple uses. Since I have no religion, I use it in reference to #1. But, it is a free world.
1a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY
lost faith in the company's president
b(1) : fidelity to one's promises
(2) : sincerity of intentions
acted in good faith
2a(1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God
(2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
b(1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof
clinging to the faith that her missing son would one day return
(2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction
especially : a system of religious beliefs
Mostly, it is handed down as a system of beliefs that a person is expected to have if he/she wants to belong to his original ‘clan!’ Only then will he be ‘good enough!’ But, at this same time, the contradictions and seeming cruelty, fragments his psyche and robs him or his true nature! Replacing this loss, becomes the ‘road less traveled!’
Freedompath
Level 9
Mar 7, 2021
2
In fact, Christians are always looking for evidence: a cloud that looks like Jesus, hearing voices, citing miracles for which there would be a hidden explanation. The list goes on. For me, the existence of our universe, the way scientists are finding that it works, the human body and how our trillions of cells work is coordination and even how one cell works within with its parts, these and others cause me awe and wonder. These are evidence of something which I recognize is beyond my ken. That is why I am an Agnostic.
think-beyond
Level 7
Mar 7, 2021
4
To answer your last question: the needs of survival, of the avoidance of pain, and of the realisation of aspirations.
Faith is an ambigious word, and I will not let anybody get away with using it ambiguously without giving them a verbal spanking for an obvious refusal to use their brain.
My world view is evidence-based.
anglophone
Level 9
Mar 7, 2021
1
"Faith" is what is needed by con artists. You have to believe them before they can swindle you. Witch doctors need your faith. They hinted at great spirits who lived in volcanos, trees, or mountains. The ultimate witch doctors hinted at the great sky spirit, and thus early religions were born, with an assortment of greater and lesser gods.
Then came the ultimate con, the creation of strict monotheism, originally Judaic but then extended into a new collection of holy writings in a new testament of Christianity. Finally, a third "re-assessment" produced a new, plagiarised collection called the Quran. All, of course, are about exerting power over people and acquiring wealth, whilst conning the ruled into believing, and viewing the con artists as humble servants.
All it needs is blind faith in unprovable fantasy.
Petter
Level 9
Mar 7, 2021
2
Faith to me is really just having confidence in your ability to do or accomplish things you want to do.
CuddyCruiser
Level 8
Mar 7, 2021
2
Could that not be simply TRUST rather than Faith?
For example, When I make a cup of coffee I trust that the Coffee is in the pod, the machine is connected to the Electricity, the water is in the tank on the machine and my cup is in place under the machine.
I do NOT have FAITH that all those things are there and ready to go.
The same goes for when I build something, I do NOT have mere faith that I can do so, I trust that my knowledge and skills have made me able and capable to do so.
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