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20 4

Maybe it's just me but I think most people have inconsistent political and philosophical beliefs.

Hear me out here...

Usually progressives obsess over emotional talking points and ignore facts, yet many atheists are progressive whereas conservatives care more about facts and logical mature solutions to social issues, yet the overwhelming majority of conservatives are religious...

Makes zero sense.

By MetalHeadJason4
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20 comments

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1

What facts do we ignore? That the tax breaks went mostly to the rich? That republicans are trying to bankrupt social security and Medicare? That’s all we do is point out the facts.

Oh, and everyone investigating trump is a republican. The fact is trump supporters don’t believe the facts

Sealybobo Level 6 Apr 19, 2018

@Beach_slim I want to ask middle class voters how they’ve benefitted from conservatives? Do they make and save more? Are they as good off as their parents? Then why are they complaining? Or is it they’ve been convinced they aren’t doing good and it’s the democrats fault?

I understand why a rich person voted gop. But they can’t convince me the way they want it is fair for all of us. Giving them tax breaks shifts the tax burden more into us.

Republicans say the poor don’t pay their fair share. I get it. No skin in the game. But they’re poor for gosh sakes! Anyways, maybe if poor people don’t like it they’ll start voting for the democrat

@Beach_slim I wasn’t arguing just venting.

@Beach_slim I love fdr. Without him old people wouldn’t have social security and Medicare. He made America great

0

Guys, don't take it so bad. I am making fun of conservatives too. We're all here cause we want to connect with like minded people. A few people pointed it out that nobody fits into a perfect category.

No need to be triggered here. It's all in good fun and the funniest stuff is true. I laugh at guys who poke fun at my beliefs too.

@kcuhcortsa I’m new so you’ll learn never to take me too seriously

3

Conservatives care about being logical when it comes to abortion, religion, healthcare costs, gay marriage, drugs, prostitution, weapons, and so on? Those are all emotional driven arguments that conservatives leverage every single day. Take healthcare, Nixon wanted it, but never got to it. Now it's considered tyranny by the emotional. The numbers are clear that we save more if universal healthcare existed in the US. Every other developed nation has it and they aren't trying to repeal it. They also have higher life expectancy and productivity. We just work more because it's a badge of honor, which is also the wrong mindset because we miss out on life and cause more psychological issues by not taking breaks/vacations. Oh, those case studies exist and are ignored by conservatives. I'm not sure what you are talking about. Watch Fox News, Breitbart, Rush, or Infowars and you'll witness emotion all day long in the form of manufactured anger, which gets viewers, ratings, and ad dollars... it's almost as if the viewers are being used to make money. Hmm.

dokala Level 7 Apr 19, 2018
1

I'd love to hear some examples of what you mean.

In many of the cases I've seen the "inconsistencies" cited are nothing more than strawmen of the opposing side's viewpoint. Or, in other cases, an extreme example is taken and used to paint the other side with a broad brush.

FireBorn Level 5 Apr 19, 2018
1

also, i would like to add, that IMO, the idea of everyone fitting nicely into their little boxes is interesting and all, but i honestly can't think of one single example where this has been done by humans. maybe ants or bees. but not humans. i may be wrong tho, i don't know everything.

Byrd Level 7 Apr 19, 2018
1

hmm, i would have to say i disagree. at least from what ive seen, while progressive people do tend to have emotions just like everybody else, they seem to be able to have them without letting them take over better than most of the conservatives ive met. also ive noticed that many conservatives, especially the very religious ones, seem to ignore facts in place of beliefs. and im not sure how it is elsewhere, but at least where i live, it is generally the conservatives who jump straight to name calling and shouting, whereas the progressive folks around here would rather walk away from the conversation if it can't be done politely. so as far as my town goes, it is usually the conservatives who forget to be mature adults. you have an interesting way of seeing things, for sure tho

Byrd Level 7 Apr 19, 2018

Kind of ironic if you ask me. They call us "snowflakes," and yet they're the most easily "triggered" people on the planet. And all you have to do to piss them off is talk about science, or mention their own hypocrisy.

That's why they champion teenagers as gun experts now...

@MetalHeadJason why would age really matter as far as weather or not one is an expert in something? i always figured it would come down to things like actually studying, or through practice...weird, most of the teens out here are very proficient with guns in general, and riffles in particular, and seem to have a fair amount of respect for the dangers involved in using guns. maybe its different where you live. oh, and to be honest, the only ones ive ever heard calling them experts are the conservatives, who are using it in a snide manner. ive never heard a progressive claim a teen was an expert. at least not here. but like i said, must be different where you live.

You haven't paid much attention to the things they have said then. They have demonstrated no actual knowledge on firearms and the ones with knowledge on firearms are on the pro gun side of the issue like that Kyle kid.one of the kids said "we are the experts and how dare they say otherwise because we lived through it" which is a classic emotional argument from authority fallacy. It's like getting into a car accident and suddenly you are an expert on automobile safety... no just no.

Also to argue that age is irrelevant is a slippery slope i doubt you would want to double down on.

@MetalHeadJason yeah no see, you just clearly demonstrated that you are in fact the one not paying attention to things being said. i stated in very clear language that i do not watch that garbage you call politics. i honestly think both sides sound as ridiculous as you do. as i said, my comments are based on the knowledge i have, i do not base what i say on random crap i heard. i have stated what i have personally witnessed in my town, as well as what i have seen posted in reply to your comment. i am not talking about some kid you saw on tv, i am talking about the people i grew up with,and interact with on a daily basis. i even tried to be open minded and stated that i don't know what its like where you live. or on the crap that you watch. why on earth would i comment about some people i have never met. seems kinda presumtuous. i would say im doing just fine on my slippery slope, the kids im talking about ive actually sat down with and discussed these matters with. how many of these people you talk about have you actually talked to in person? or are you going off some nonsense that the media wants you to hear? you might want to pay attention to your own slope my dear, looks pretty slippery from here.

@MetalHeadJason they are not "gun experts", fool! They are pointing out they are supposed to be learning things in school, not being killed by conservative white nut cases. Just wow.

4

Smell me a troll

Simon1 Level 7 Apr 19, 2018

Haha, you know what? Your alright with me!?

Several

1

Peoples minds are shaped by input they have been exposed to. As we get older we filter the input more but the old programing is still there. It is prehaps too rare to find people who take the time and effort to sort their beliefs passed on input proraming and decide what to keep and what to reject. With a setup like that there is lots of room for human thinkinf that does not make since. When I left Christanity it was onlt then I began realize how much of my thinking was based on it. Same concept is true for most folks. Most folksdo not realize how much their thinking is shaped by "outside of themself" ideas.

MarcusF Level 5 Apr 19, 2018
0

Also notice that I used the term "progressive" rather than liberal. Most conservatives these days are more liberal than the people who identify as liberals. Progressives are very restrictive and are better defined as socialists.

2

You are totally off base! Conservatives tend to obscess on ideology and on maintaining the status quo (instead of what is needed and postive for the people). Progressives rely much more on reason and hard data. With your statement, you simply show your lack of objectivity.

wordywalt Level 8 Apr 19, 2018

I think you are being biased here. I used to be a progressive AND religious. I stripped my belief system down into the bare bones of what I know to be true and from everything I see on cnn and msnbc everyday, there are hardly ever any citations or facts used in arguments. It's more a "feel good" attitude. Sure doing what feels good seems nice but does it actually do good? If you were to take a look at the facts and figures you would see that it isn't always the case.

@MetalHeadJason Your perceptions are far from reality. And, I am being biased?

@MetalHeadJason i don't know about anyone else, but i never claimed anything about something always being the case. one of my main points earlier was that it is not that cut and dry, and that people from both sides have been guilty of what you claim at some point. but it would appear that most of the folks responding have actually done as you suggested and looked at facts and figures, and the general consensus is that the majority of the time(not always) what you have described sounds backwards. i thought perhaps it was just my area that felt/acted this way, but it seems thats not the case.

2

That's funny that some people are saying that conservatives are the ones who don't rely on facts. The progressive pundits I see on YouTube like cyenk from tyt etc always just yell and never cite any information whereas guys like Crowder or Ben Shapiro provide citations and actually debunk their opponents with logical counter points.

im not disagreeing that there are a few on each side who don't fit the mold, and many more who only fit it somewhat. but that doesnt change my opinion that for the most part, at least around my area,(i don't watch any of the political garbage on the internet or tv, so i can't comment on that) it is pretty much the opposite of what you described.

I'm always skeptical of cited statistics. It's a well known fact that statistics can, and are, manipulated to present the desired picture. For example, I've heard crime statistics cited in such a way as present certain minorities in a bad light. Even if the hard stats are correct they fail to take into account other sociological factors.

3

I can't tell if you're being ironic or just deliberately mistating information.

Benthoven Level 8 Apr 19, 2018
4

I've not met any conservatives that liked facts ...they have invented a few but not relied on actual facts

Simon1 Level 7 Apr 19, 2018

Try talking to some.

2

As long as Trump is your president I doubt that conservatives care much about facts.

jonds56 Level 6 Apr 19, 2018

He's not my President. He's THE president. I didn't vote for him btw...

1

Both sides have the emotional talkin points and they both ignore any facts that go against the rhetoric they are pushing. neither is better than the other. both sides use the opinions of people they see on their favorite media and ignore the actual FACT of the situation. our media is nothing but propaganda driven and CNN and MSNBC are just as guilty as FOX.

jorj Level 8 Apr 19, 2018
7

It's definitely just you.
If conservatives cared "more about facts and logical mature solutions", 45 wouldn't have ever been able to run for the Presidency. The environment wouldn't be under constant attack, and we wouldn't still be fighting over healthcare for everyone and civil rights for all. They also wouldn't believe in mythological deities, and man-made religions.
jlynn37 nailed it when he noted your confirmation bias.
Care to try again?

KKGator Level 9 Apr 19, 2018

@Beach_slim First off, I don't "worship" anyone. It's quite rude of you to say that I do, considering you don't know jack about me. Although, it's quite typical of conservatives to make such false claims against those who don't agree with them.
Further, don't act like you're some sort of Nostradamus and can see into the future. You aren't and you don't.
It's not only disingenuous to attempt the 'argument' that being progressive will lead to the US becoming North Korea, it's downright false. That's not happening, nor would it. Most of the major industrialized nations have universal healthcare and religion isn't as important as it is here. They are ALL doing much better than we are.
Don't come at me with your bullshit. You can't back up a shred of it. All you're doing is parroting the garbage you're hearing on Fox and reading on Breitbart. Progressive is NOT a negative. That would be 'regressive', which is what most conservatives have been choosing. The future scares the shit out of them, which is why they continually support people who have no desire to do anything but drag us back to the past.
Please stop acting like you are so superior to anyone else. It's abundantly clear that you are not.

@Beach_slim Okay, you don't watch TV, sorry, my bad. Not a Fox-watcher, check.
Whether I bore you or not doesn't concern me. Although, I do think you need to re-acquaint yourself with the definitions of both slanderous and libelous. The ONLY misconception I expressed was your parroting of Fox "news", for which I apologized. I'm not on the "left", so now you're guilty of the same thing you accused me of.
The Scandinavian countries all have a much better quality of life than the US does. They have universal healthcare, and higher percentages of non-believers. Most of North Korea's population live in abject poverty, with no way of improving their lives.
You really exaggerated my comments, making yourself look foolish, and severely damaging your credibility.
I can do this all day long.

@Beach_slim Wow. You extrapolated quite a bit based on nothing but your own bias. Thank you for making it abundantly clear that is not possible to engage with you in intelligent debate. Your false assumptions are numerous. Dismissed.

@kcuhcortsa I'm just gonna add this by replying to one of the people in this thread who seems sane, because I wouldn't want mr grumpy pants to think I was picking on him...hope you don't mind. anyhow, as a person who worked my first real job at 16, and didn't stop till I had to, which would make me working class, I very much did end up needing and appreciating things like the healthcare that's been mentioned, and at some point may end up relying on that SSI too if my surgeries don't go well. I felt that putting a bit of my cash into a healthcare system was not only the right thing to do as far as helping others, I knew that I lived a hard life, I expected at some point to need help. even working two jobs, I could never afford my current medical bills, so in the end it was the right choice for my own benefit as well. also, I took a quick poll of the working class folks I know, and I believe out of the 47 replies I got, only 4 where against it...

@Beach_slim Really? You're going to blame people who have medical issues, through no fault of their own? People who PAID into the system for their entire working lives shouldn't be able to avail themselves of the services they paid into?

@Beach_slim I never threatened to report you. Not once. I did say 'sorry' for the wrong assumption. Get over your moral outrage and perhaps work on your reading comprehension.

@Beach_slim ok then, so lets address your first point you made to me to start with. who exactly are these poor people you are talking about? I never mentioned anything about poor people. that is just another unintelligent, untrue statement, by a person spouting off some nonsense they assumed about someone. so yeah, that says a lot about what kind of person you are. also, in regards to your other remark, which for some weird reason, you felt like involving me in. even though I made no comment about what this other person said to you, its pretty clear that you are at the very least exaggerating and quite possibly just plain making things up again. she made an assumption, which she later found to be inaccurate. she then corrected herself, and did in fact offer an apology. if you are not able to recognize such things, perhaps you should try to expand your mind and learn something new to you, instead of whatever this sad excuse for a polite exchange was. I will say whoever, folks like you sure do make life fun, you make it too easy, lol

@Beach_slim also, if a person is willingly doing a thing, it is not forced. you may need a dictionary.

@Beach_slim Now who's lying? I did say "sorry" for my wrong assumption. I did NOT threaten to report you. You falsely accused me of worshiping the leader of North Korea, and Bernie Sanders. You can get over yourself, and your moral outrage at being disagreed with. You might also wish to work on the reading comprehension, it seems to be a problem for you. We can debate the issues, if you know how.

@Beach_slim yes I agree, your snide remarks are unnecessary, finally some sense! and as far as your view on if a thing is forced or not, as I said, you may want to look up what the words forced, and willing mean. if I am willing to do something, I am not being forced. I'm not saying that when a law that you don't agree with is passed that you are not being forced to do something, but the people who say, I am willing to do this thing are choosing to do it, not being forced.

@Beach_slim Pot, meet Kettle. You've made your share of snide comments, too. You've also made your share of false assumptions (without apologizing). I DID say I was sorry for the false assumption of you being a Fox watcher. I also never lied.
I never threatened to report you to Admin, for anything. You're playing semantics as much as anyone else. The site is fine, and Admin is always working on improvements. As far as adding to the conversation, you're complaining about things that are already in place. As if agreeing with you will make any of them go away. We pay taxes. We pay into Social Security. That is supposed to benefit all of us when/if we need it. You have conflated and misrepresented the comments of anyone who has engaged with you. Don't act like you're so above everything. You are as much a part of the problem as you claim others are. Enjoy your day.

2

You are spot on. It seems like there is some form of psychological substitution going on with many atheists and agnostics.

Faith in God is replaced by Faith in Government
Fear of Hell is replaced by Fear of Global Warming

BD66 Level 7 Apr 19, 2018

That's about the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

@SallyMc Not worth a rebuttal, I'm not a fish, not taking the bait.

@SallyMc Who are you to question?

@SallyMc I am fully aware of that, his so called argument has no merit, therefore I CHOOSE not to rebut, it's not that I'm not able.

@SallyMc No one called anyone any names. Saying something is the "most idiotic thing I've ever heard", is not name-calling. It's simply a comment. People here are allowed to comment on anything they please. It's called a free-exchange of ideas.
Even if you don't care for a comment, that does not negate the poster's right to make it. There were no personal attacks or insults.

I don't believe @nvmuff was referring to @kcuhcortsa's comment, but rather, BS66's comment.
When there is no " @whomever" at the beginning of a comment, that's usually an indication that the poster is responding to the initial comment, not the subsequent replies.

Perhaps everyone can just step back and take a breath.

@KKGator Thank you for saying what I chose not to.

@SallyMc I completely disagree with your opinion, and I don't think calling a comment "idiotic" is remotely the same as calling the person an idiot. They are two, entirely separate things. However, if you choose to conflate the two, knock yourself out. Express your opinion however you see fit, as is your right. I have no problem disagreeing with it, or saying so. Oh, and there's no need to edit on my account. Wouldn't want you to tax yourself unnecessarily.

@nvrnuff No worries.

I'm not quite sure what's even being debated here in this thread, but you have to look at what human weaknesses cause most humans to believe a particular set of ridiculous fairy tales. Many of us who don't believe in those fairy tales may have the same weaknesses, they just manifest themselves in different ways. For example, no sane person, when weighing the evidence for and against whether Noah's Ark happened, should ever believe that it did indeed happen. Likewise, if you look at the two extremes in governments, whenever a government has minimal power to tax and harm its citizens (USA before 1913, tax havens like Lichtenstein, etc.) you get freedom, a high standard of living, and prosperity. Every time a government has maximum power to tax and harm its citizens (Stalin's Russia, Mao's China, Hitler's Germany, Pol Pot's Cambodia), you get misery and mass murder. When you look at the two extremes, no sane person should conclude that people are better off with a powerful government that can take away all their earnings, and kill them.

As far as comparing fear of Hell with fear of Global Warming. It's interesting to watch Morgan Freeman's documentary on religion. He said the one common thing about all major religions is a day of reckoning or Armageddon. If people don't straighten up and act right, they will suffer. If they do straighten up and act right (according to what that religion says is right) they will be rewarded. So humans have this built into their psyche. Those who don't fall for the religious BS from people like Joel Osteen, are still susceptible to other BS from people like Al Gore.

Here's a perfect example. This is equivalent to a minister saying Jesus will come back in the year 2013. When the year 2013 comes around and no Jesus, people should stop believing the nonsense put out by the minister. When a scam artist like Al Gore says in 2008 that the polar ice cap will be gone by 2013, then the polar ice cap sticks around is about as big as it ever was, people should conclude that Al is milking the climate change scam and squeezing every bit of profit out of it that he can. However people still believe the nonsense that comes out of Al's mouth. This is the same human weakness that manifests itself when people follow a minister even after he claims that Jesus will come back at a particular date and time, then Jesus doesn't show up.

@kcuhcortsa I wasn't commenting on what you posted.

@kcuhcortsa No worries

9

IMO the Progressives are all about facts, while the Conservatives are masters of the BIG LIE TECHNIQUE.

nicknotes Level 8 Apr 19, 2018

Lol

9

Hey, conservatives! The Facts are, the EPA was doing wonderful things to help our planet, until you decided it was too touchy-feely, or whatever.(Passaic River on fire, anyone?) The Facts are, mass gun violence is a franchise of white weirdos who are extremely conservative. The Facts are, "innocent until proven guilty" is not how police act any more, particularly if you are a person of color. The Facts are, what people do in their bedrooms, or decide with their doctors, is None of your business and never was! Emotional, my ass!

Omg this is proof of my point.

@MetalHeadJason go back to drinking in every word on Faux News. And say hello to Sean Hannity, professional liar, for me.

10

Your opinion is noted and your conservative confirmation bias is on full display.

jlynn37 Level 8 Apr 19, 2018

Sweet

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