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I'm wondering if the biggest difference between the original/originary fascist movements of the 1920s through the '40s and the C21 fascism personified by trump, Bolsonaro, Orban et. al. is the utter nihilism of the latter. Italian and German fascism wanted to destroy democracy and the rights of man articulated by thinkers of the Enlightenment, along with certain populations they considered inconvenient and/or subhuman, plus any notion of truth informed by sense, intelligence, science, or reality. The modern heirs of C20 fascism want to do all of that and much, much more—for them it's not only about destroying disliked populations; it's about destroying the planet as a place hospitable to humans, including the trumpites themselves. Their suicidal-as-well-as-homicidal nature is also visible in the overlap between the trump movement and the anti-vax/anti-mask movement. What to do? Damned if I know, they're hard to reach. It's probably best, though, to act as if we're not completely fucked, in spite of whatever intuition one might have that we are.

AlanCliffe 6 Feb 20
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Fascism historically welded corporations and industry to authoritarian government. Today, it may be more that corporations are the hand and government is the glove, rather than the reverse. But yes, today's tyrants seem to be more nihilistic or at least reckless. Or maybe the stakes are higher.

"Fascism" is used a lot, misused some, and can never be quite the same as manifest a century ago. But there is no question that we have an epic struggle between democracy and authoritarianism today.

Fascists succeed when their opposition feels hopeless and gives up. The media focuses on the negative. Hillary won the majority of the popular vote. So did Biden. American fascists are the minority in this country. There is a segment of middle America that can be swayed one way or the other. Granted, extremists are well-funded, organized, and persistent. But those are not attributes that they have a monopoly on. Sometimes it's two steps forward, one back, or one forward, two back. It's a long game. The struggle never ends, but that doesn't mean we don't make progress. Look at a more historical timeline to judge progress. The choice is keep fighting or do nothing.

When you do nothing, you actually do something.

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The fascist movements of the 1920s through the '40s were real.
C21 fascism personified by Trump, Bolsonaro, Orban is fabricated.

BD66 Level 8 Feb 20, 2022

Still dangerous though. Never underestimate what anyones capable of.

Fabricated? By whom? Or are you saying that "fascist" is the wrong word for T, B, and O and their followings? In other words, is the THREAT they pose fabricated, therefore illusory?

@AlanCliffe Completely, 100% fabricated.

Trump inherited the strongest military in the world. He used it less than any President since Carter.

I strongly disagree with BD66's claim that Trump is not a fascist. Trump has employed a range of fascist tactics, including demonization of a free press, scapegoating a relatively powerless minority, asserting the HE ALONE can fix the problem de jure, packing government positions with numbskulls whose only job qualification is abject obedience to Trump, flaunting of the country's laws and asserting that they do not apply to HIM, inflammatory demagoguery, and more. To say that his Administration lacked transparency is a gross understatement; Trump and his minions did everything possible to hide what they were up to, including routine and illegal destruction of documents (by tearing them up, placing them in burn bags, or even flushing them down toilets; or as in the famous case of a call log with the President of Ukraine, mislabeling it as top secret so it could be hidden away in a safe that was accessible only to people with top security clearance). When Trump lost a free and fair election, he refused to accept the result, instead inciting a mob to attack the Capital in a brazen attempt to halt the Constitutional transfer of power. And let's not forget that the Mueller Report basically said that Trump had on at least ten occasions obstructed justice, and only escaped prosecution for those crimes because of a Justice Department opinion that a sitting President cannot be indicted. And though Mueller's investigation could not prove that Trump and his campaign staff colluded with Russia as they meddled in our election, neither did it exonerate them. There was plenty of nefarious activity going on, but the key insider Roger Stone, when put under oath, invoked his 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination; and when convicted of witness tampering, was pardoned by Trump himself. Ahhh, it's good to be the King! And while in office Trump very openly embraced autocrats around the world, ESPECIALLY Vladimir Putin. And without offering any evidence to back up his position, Trump even sided with Putin against our own intelligence community! All of this is antithetical to democracy, and is right in line with the style of the Italian fascist Mussolini, who provided the fascist template used by Adolf Hitler. BD66 appears to have a very short memory. Or does (s)he have a fascist agenda of his/her own? I ask because attempting to erase or rewrite history is another fascist tactic (one employed by Trump almost daily; witness the 40,000 lies and distortions he uttered while in office).

@BD66
We recently learned that after losing the 2020 election, Trump sought to use the US military to illegally seize voting machines. I have no doubt that he would have American soldiers turn their guns on American citizens if it suited his personal interest. Don't forget this is the guy who, for the sake of a photo op in front of a church, had paramilitary forces violently disperse from the street citizens who were peacefully assembled there. Not only is Trump a sanctimonious prick, he is a sniveling coward who always has others do his dirty work, who, when cornered hides behind platoons of lawyers. What a sad excuse for a man. He is truly pathetic.

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IMO we are fucked, there’s no hope. I’ve been preparing myself for what may come. The 2024 election just may be what does it.

Hopefully the DOJ throws tRumps arse in prison for a long time.

@xenoview Trump should have BEEN in prison for all the laws he has broken and the way he has cheated honest people who fo business with him. But, he is one of the Wealthy Elites and they don't live by the same laws we regular folks do.

@xenoview I hope so too. But, sorry to say, someone like myself from Chumps hometown, and have known about him before most on here ever even heard of him, from his multiple bankruptcies, history of fuckin’ people over, contractors who did work for him, etc etc, his comments about the Central Park 5 who were eventually proven of innocence due to DNA evidence but still said they were guilty anyway…….he’s good at playin’ the victim mentality and a lot of desperate and naive folks fell for it anyway and always will.

@Reignmond That’s the point. If nothing happens to him, then next time another Jan.6 like attempt will be successful. Whether by violence or by subversion. It came extremely close that day. That’s why I’m preparing accordingly.

@CuddyCruiser Most people fail to see how close we came to a small scale overthrow of our government. And it was not even an organized serious attempt.

@Reignmond Your 100% on the money. Had that would have been only, or even just mostly Oath keepers, 3 percenters, who have retired and active members of law enforcement and military, and not the dopey Trumpanzees who fancy themselves “revolutionaries” or “patriots” who made the prosecution’s jobs so easy because of their own pics or emails, text messages bragging about their illegal activities, and had it been planned thoroughly and strategically, your 100% correct.

@CuddyCruiser There was also a good number of the "Mindless 40%" of the general population who are easily conbed and simply "go with the flow" of the group around them.

@Reignmond The Evangeloonies and the religious in large numbers there no doubt.

And what do your preparations consist of? Do tell!

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Too many movements listed here. Keep in mind that "democracy" is an ideal that came about in our system through FDR. Democracy as we know it has little to do with other nations regardless of a desire to base everything now going on in the world as somehow connected to Dems and the GOP. This idea is false. Fascism on the world stage is also changing and has little to do with past trends that people continually write about. Reading all of it with a "history repeats itself" outlook is actually a distraction. Simple facts are that "Q" in American viewpoint is adding to that distraction. With the Internet this allows so much nonsense that it is not even funny.

The truth in my opinion is that many American businesses believe that Fascism would not hinder their business and might even help it. This is why they give large sums to those who support it, Trump being one. His actions said one thing as his mouth said another. FDR was a weakling and he had polio. Why would we help anyone who has nothing? Wanting your business means we want your money and we are developing new ways of getting it.

This is my view as an American and my spin on current Fascism. I have not added China, Putin, or others politically because talking all of this is yet but another distraction. How will things turn out and what will others do? Flip a coin but be aware that media will continue with their spin because it is what they do. They fuel the fire and you have to see which way the wind is coming from.

@Wangobango3
The USA is a democratic republic, an IMPERFECT democracy, a democracy with fascist tendencies,...in sum, a work in progress. And I think it's fair to say that real progress continues to be made, though it is halting and at times gets temporarily reversed. Still, I would prefer to live here in the USA rather than under a kleptocracy like Russia, where a dangerous autocrat like Putin can get away with jailing his political opponents (and journalists) on trumped-up charges, or, in classic gangland mob style, simply have them murdered in cold blood. At least here we have the right to free speech. I only wish more speakers would respect that right by doing their homework before broadly disseminating their opinions. Get my drift Wango?

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Significant differences lay in policies. The National Socialist Workers German Party, were socialists, working for what they thought were the benefit of the Germanic peoples.
Trump, isn't a socialist, more like a one nation capitalist with his needs at the top of his list.
A common danger is the vilification of 'others'. Picking on foreigners, sub-cultures and the poor.

Anyone who admires Hitler or anything about the Third Reich, is a worthless piece of shit.

There was nothing socialist about the Nazis. They were a right-wing, extremist party. They mostly cae from the lower middle classes, not the working classes.

@Wangobango3 "False Flag" naming is very common on Bills and policies. Who could be against the "Patriot Act"? .... until you read and think about it!

@Wangobango3 National Socialism in Hitler's Germany had nothing to do with how American's view socialism.

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