Almost 9 years ago, my beautiful sister was taken from this world from being sick from cancer.
I hate it, HATE it when someone says, “Oh, it’sall part of God’s plan.”
What part of God’s plan induces pain, suffering, sorrow and death for no reason?
It is the only way to wrap their heads around something when they believe god controls everything, especially when they keep telling you how loving he is. I am so very sorry for your loss and no There is no explanation for this type of thing. My daughter has been through 2 different cancer battles but is so lucky because she made it through. For her this experience was what made her an Atheist
wow what a story Amelie. Instead of thanking gawd, you are all grateful to the doctors, the research, the science behind it and, no less, to you for supporting her all the way I'm sure.
@Lukian thanks. We all need to support each other in times that test us.
@AmelieMatisse somehow, not believing in gawd actually means we relate to our live human family and relationship instead of an imaginary friend in the clouds.
@Lukian yes that is very true. I feel badly for people who spend hours praying for no reason at all. If we could just accept that some things happen in life for no other reason than a chance occurance
@AmelieMatisse you said it better.
They don't really believe that! They only use it as an excuse for inexplicable problems in life. That way...they still get to appear ''trusting in the lord.''
Based on many long discussions with theists on this topic, I can assure you they vigorously defend that position to support their "faith". I have point blank asked them if they actually and honestly believe (actual example) "a teen age girl hung herself to live forever with her dead father and Jesus in heaven" is a part of god's plan." All theists I debated (we all knew the girl) firmly without hesitation supported the "god's plan" position.
Whatever it takes to maintain (faith) belief without evidence of their supernatural sky daddy saviour.
@NoMagicCookie Then, why do Xtians clamor about preventing suicide? If their god really wants us to act with ''free will,'' why not let us DO it? "It's alllll gawd's plan" is just a cop-out..nothing more.
@iamjc "These people" are not friends. "These people" (in my example were people I work with. Most of the theists I encounter also maintain the same position (primarily at the YMCA (my gym/theist hunting grounds). I actively poke holes in their "faith" based believe system and have de-converted a few from theist back to atheist. There are few things more satisfying then having a person who was once terrified of burning in hell forever thank you for guiding him from the darkness of religion to the light of reality.
@iamjc, @LucyLoohoo That is a good question. Years ago I asked one of my favorite sources "Edward Tarte" (he spent 5 years as a Catholic preist then figured Religion was BS so he is a vocal atheist). (if memory serves (BIG IF) he mentioned the Catholics have some rule about not offing yourself - - - this is where it gets fuzzy - - or you go to hell because you have taken god's plan from him in deciding when you die as opposed to preserving his sacred life or something like that. FYI Here is a link to Edward Tarte's Youtube. Here is a random selection from one of Edward Tarte's videos.
@NoMagicCookie Makes PERFECT sense, right? (inserting an imoji who is rolling on the floor, pounding his little feet in laughter.)
"Why do people think. . . "
Error.
Your question should be "Why do theists (a subset of people) think. . . " Those I respect are not theists and do not consider terrible outcomes a part of "god's plan"
The theist's "God's plan" apology when terrible things happen to good people is to classic example religious doublethink.
To support their faith (belief without evidence) based claim "a god exists", the Christian apologist by definition must employ a litany of such irrational justifications in an attempt to "support the unsupportable".
So the "God's plan" is just another outcome of faith. (belief without evidence often defended against testable facts that contradict the faith based claim).
@MrsMickiLP Ack! You are absolutely correct! I am sure that is where I borrowed "Error" from the bad old DOS days and trouble shooting servers. I currently manage several servers and dozens of work stations so I still run across "error".
@MrsMickiLP I must confess, I noted the "error" because you graciously afforded me the contextually appropriate opportunity to note: theists are "a subset of people" as, (although not the actual definition of subset) the prefix "sub" has the following meanings: “under,” “below,” “beneath” . . . “imperfectly,” “nearly”. Although "subset" is not actually a homograph, It was a fun opportunity to play with words. Thanks much.
my condolences. she must have been very young. 'god's plan' is a bunch of BULLSHIT!! also when ppl say that you can take comfort in knowing that it's in god's hands is BULLSHIT!! i take no comfort when bad things happen to good people. my mother died of cancer and my dad died a year later with an aneurysm (97' and 98'... that's about when i started to stop believing in bullshit. i do visit them in my dreams though. i know it's not really them but while i'm dreaming it's nice. i'm in the same work that my dad was in (he was and i am a land surveyor)... in my dreams i sometimes wonder why we aren't working together....then i wake up.
@MrsMickiLP wow. wayyy too young.
and thank you... not sure why that winky thing showed up. i didn't intend to put that there.
Do they follow up with that insipid corrollary, "that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger?"
Thanks, asshat but I was strong enough already.
What doesn't kill you might just cripple you for the rest of your life.
@schwinnrider Love your handle, Schwinnrider. I have a son and a daughter who are serious bikers, I’m a serious walker myself.
Sorry for your loss. I agree. The same thought goes for pediatric cancer. How can it be part of a plan for children to die??? Or any terminal illness? I was sexually molested by two men when I was 10 years old. It infuriates me when I hear shit like it’s part of the plan or god allows things because people can handle it.
Now that’s real tucked up, I spent years working with abused women and children it takes some much enrrgy to maintain any sense of sanity. But to my amazement many women and children survive the trauma
Because they want a reason for their suffering. I know I sure as hell wish my suffering was part of some bigger plan to make it worth it but noooo it's just bad luck
I used to think "as long as I'm suffering, then someone else will be spared it." But that was just for my own comfort and peace of mind. Turns out there isn't a finite amount of suffering
@LadyAlyxandrea as I child I always thought if I can feel the pain for someone else then that would make it ok, unfortunately that's not how it works. I had to learn that lessen the hard way. I'm oddly glad to know I'm not the only one who thought like that.
It's not even in the Bible. Jesus told everyone healed during his ministry that THEIR faith healed them.
In Mark 11:23 Jesus said that anyone and anyTHING (the Greek pronoun includes all declensions) that tells a mountain to throw itself into the sea and believes it (the Greek word includes both conscious and subconscious levels) that the mountain must obey them.
No mention of a mountain being thrown into the sea, and no doubt causing tsunamis, being something good, or even "god's will" - just the idea being emphasized that you are creating your own reality.
“Consciousness is fundamental and matter is derived from consciousness." – Max Planck, theoretical physicist who originated quantum theory, 1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
Ask them why babies are born addicted to crack. Ask them why young children are raped. Ask them why God planned for a man to throw acid in a woman’s face because she looked at a guy.
God’s Plan is a bullshit excuse to describe away horrible things that Christians can’t explain rationally. Also, if you want to throw them for a loop, ask them if they believe in luck. If they answer yes, that just furthers their hypocrisy. If they do, that’s saying that God doesn’t have a plan. Luck is a force that can alter the outcome of an event. If God has a plan, then everything is already predetermined. Free Will doesn’t really exist if God’s Plan does. Because no matter what we do or what happens, God planned for it to happen.
Because they are sent right from "gawd" (he/she/it is a complete bastard)...and woe to you blasphemers who plead for him to rescind the sentence!
The pain that you feel, the outrage? The sorrow, despair, sadness, depression, anger...
Yeah a lot of people aren't strong enough to bear it alone. They need to beleive in a fairytale to make it all better. They didn't lose a loved one - they're with an all knowing, all loving Deity that just couldn't wait to hang out with them.
Fucking childish if you ask me. Reality is pain. Embrace it.
There is no god and therefore no plan. When people say that is part of gods plan what they are really saying is I can not except reality and the fact that life is full of the good and the bad, the bliss and the pain! It is a weak mentality that usually leads to following blindly into christian cult activity.
I do believe it is a way to stay positive and not become devastated and become overwhelmed when bad things happen. It gives people a reason to move forward. My view is; bad stuff happens and it's a good time to reflect make changes when needed and move forward. As far as death and illness is concerned; it's a good time to remember the good times and forget the bad and treasure the memories of the ones you've lost and fill your life with others that will fill in until the pain of that loss subsides.
I think it is in keeping with religion's lack of ability to explain phenomena - blame or attribute it to their god... Of course, if someone were to make that type of insensitive comment to me I would be sorely tempted to stating my amazement that anyone could worship an entity so sadistic. What plan could possibly explain cancer and an early, painful death??
Such people have created a false construct, which they use to get through life - because they're mentally weak.
They view themselves as being exempt from all the bad things that can happen in life, because they are deluded.
They remind me of the people who like violent drama. The type who watch slasher films or who read crime fiction about serial killers. They enjoy it, but they never think that they could become a victim of violent crime themselves. They're special. Those things only happen to other people.
This could be extended to politics. Some working class people might vote for republicans or for a party that traditionally serves the rich. They are exempt.
I wonder if there's a narcissistic component.
This sort of schizophrenic pronouncement that god is good and merciful and kind and protective and fatherly, while at the same time having Mysterious Ways that involve baroque and tragic human suffering, is something you're never going to get them to explain because there IS no explanation for it.
Because they cannot deal with the thought that the world isn't just and fair in some manner, and their inability to change that. If they think that there's an afterlife where someone that got a raw deal here will get ten times as many good deals gifted to them, then the world doesn't seem so bad and they can continue on with the least change to the way they normally do things.
Thoughts and prayers are so much easier than making a sizable donation to cancer research or to getting a medical degree and working on a cure.
Of course, it's also outside of their thought processes to consider what effect their "god's plan" comment will have on someone that doesn't read from the same book of fiction they do. Or perhaps they did think of that, and feel that it is deserved for not believing. Any god that tortures people with diseases like that certainly doesn't deserve respect (as in admiration, as opposed to how you'd respect a . 45 pointed at your head), much less worship.
For the same reason that, had she survived after extended medical treatment, new developments in cancer treatment brought about by decades of human research, they would have called it a miracle from God. Forget about the science, the dedicated scientists and the willpower of the ill person to persevere and their personal strength. Religious people kind of make me sick!