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Incest: Immoral or Moral?

I was asked this question today by a theist. If there is no God why is safe sex between brother and sister immoral to an atheist? This guy was smart to add safe sex because it closed off my avenue to argue the health issue. So, I was thinking why is it immoral if it is consensual? I understand we find it gross but is that because of Christian influence?

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paul1967 8 Oct 12
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314 comments (151 - 175)

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0

If incest is practiced in a manner in which it is not abuse then I (putting my gross factor aside) would say it is Amoral.

1

I believe we are psychologically preprogrammed not to engage in sex with people we are close to During certain formative years. Generally I think from age 7 to about 14. So really, brother and sister sex is gross but so is all sex (when done properly.) The difference is we have developed a mechanism that grosses us out at the thought of sex with certain people we have bonds with during a particular time period.

1

Well that's an odd thing to include... I would say no sex is 100% "safe", assuming what's meant is avoiding both disease and pregnancy alike. Protections can fail and often enough do.

To me risking it with family is just not right. Even if it was limited to siblings, it just seems playing around with the possibility is nasty.

AmyLF Level 7 Jan 20, 2018
2

Morality is a social construct.
Biological, inbreeding leads to the collection of heterogeneous mutations and can lead to reduced fitness. The incest taboo is much older than Christianity and has nothing to do with it. It came from thousands of years of observations. In the past, they used myth stories to show people that it was "wrong".
So if you want to get fixed and have sex with your sister or brother, whatever.

1

Morals are subjective. To each their own. It's not my place to judge others, or their actions. I've always said, what two consenting adults do in private, is no business of mine.

1

I don't believe that any relationship between two or more consenting adults is immoral. There is a story in the bible, after the fall of Sodom and Gomorah, Lot's daughters had children by their father and weren't punished by god. As long as nobody gets hurt, It's there business

0

I consider it immoral, in the sense that it can be harmful for society. I remember learning in sociology class that incest is a taboo because family members usually have very easy access to one another, and also that if such behavior became normal, that it could cause confusion in social roles. this makes sense to me. However, I don't believe it is something gross or horrible; it's just something we should not do for good reasons, and it is taboo because if it weren't, it would probably become commonplace. But for those who consider truly terrible and disgusting, what is it about it precisely that makes it so? I don't approve of incest, but it doesn't horrify me either.

0

NO if for no other reason than my brother has major cooties!

0

This has become more of an issue in modern times with the rights of adopted people to find their biological family. Apparently There is a 25% chance of sexual attraction in the case of each individual. Doing the maths that means that 6.25% of the times it will be mutual.

1

I think that it is a religious thing in general, not just a "Christian" thing. But being more of a spiritualist, I still think that somehow a sexual relationship between siblings of any combination is a bit creepy. Just my opinion.

1

Unwise due to genetic concern s. Immoral because it generally involves a violation of trust or.misuse of power.

1

If consenting adult siblings decide to have sex, it is only their business - as long as they don't procreate. it supports the freedom of choice, not harming a third party.

i just noticed, reading through the other comments, how many actually argue against via the genetics factor - when the original question clearly stated that it is not about incestuous breeding, but simply sex. for an agnostic community those responses are pretty biblical 😀

@walklightly I love you lol. I honestly appreciate your recognition of my question. I was shocked and a little disappointed at some of the responses. The response that got the most likes accused me of supporting child rape, and I found that to be incredibly insulting. Again I appreciate your comment and support.

any time, @paul1967 - the support, i mean. you posed a brave question, & i'm taking my (non-existent) hat off to you, in other words, you've got my highest respect.

@walklightly You are my type of people. You understand the simple and the complex and you have my respect and friendship.

thank you, @paul1967, likewise with deep gratitude.

0

More men will vote for moral than women. This question was probably brought to you by a male, which is why people are on here trying to hook up.

It is true that I am a male, but I have no desire to sleep with my sister. Never have, never would, and she's adopted, so there isn't even the biological incompatibility problem. I'm like most people here; I was raised thinking it was icky at the very least. My question and that is all that it is, was to examine why the act itself of (non-procreating) sex between two related people is considered so abhorrent in so many cultures. Unfortunately, I must have done a lousy job of communicating that, because I received an uncomfortable amount of shaming from the community. I'll try harder in the future to post my question more clearly.

0

If there is no power imbalance or manipulation in the form of grooming, if it is consensual and between adults then I haven't got a problem, even knew a pair of sisters who regular satisfied each others needs rather than bring a strange man into a household with a small child, they just figured it was the safer alternative. However all the conditions have to be met and they were in that case, usually they aren't.
Genetically speaking line breeding is often used in studs to fix traits so if you had two particularly fine specimens with highly desirable traits I wouldn't even insist on safe sex, but you'd want a full genetic screening first which is kind of hypocritical considering society has no problems with two individuals with known inherited illnesses from having children.

Kimba Level 7 Jan 30, 2018
0

According to the religious right, incest is perfectly normal in a close Christian family.

0

Would not morality have to involve a degree of harm? Consenting adults who will not risk reproduction from the union/ activity would not be immoral. Morality stems from a social doctrine designed to control & prevent a perceived or actual harm. Thusly an adult, consensual, no
risk to pregnancy coupling would not be immoral.

0

Gross.

Non religious morality doesn't come into it. So long as its purely consensual then noone is harmed, so long as protection is used to ensure no procreation, you aren't exposing possible children to debilitating birth defects. Its still icky though.

0

In the book of Lies and False Promise (the bible) incest is quite frequent. The story that comes to mind is the story of Lot and his daughters. After Lot's wife is turned a pillar of salt the daughters get Lot drunk so that they could "mate" with their father. Of course there's the story of Adam and Eve. There is no explanation on how the world was populated without incest.

0

I think you'd first have to define what moral can mean.

0

I read through many of the comments and I don't understand why so many people are discussing relationships that are part of the question. The question mentions "brother/sister", "safe sex" and "consensual". I think in this case it is moral. It don't ask if we think it is strange or not. It also does not mention if the people are adult, but if not I think this would be no more immoral than two unrelated under aged people have sex . And the morality of that would be another question. A parent/kid sexual relationship start to get tricky. I still think it's ok as long as they are adult and the authoritarian feeling don't influence the decision to have sex.

0

I recommend, you read Theodore Sturgeon's short story:"" If all men are brothers, would you let your sister marry one?

It is science fiction, so Mr. Sturgeon cleverly creates a margin of safety for his reader, sensitive or not. But I will tell you that is it about love.

0

Incest is taboo. safe sex between consenting adults, is not taboo. the taboo real and limiting for obvious evolutionary reasons. this day in age, with muslim fathers either gathering their sons and going on "rape adventures" seeking out anything small enough to hold down. or if there are no sons, simply raping their own daughters, nightly or if you prefer, selling their daughters at age 6 typically to an uncle or cousin, that goes to reinforce the taboo. if you take a look at the effects of imbred babies, you can go down the list and mark off one for one, those characteristics and your typical muslim. and im not simply being bigoted. look it up, in the majority of muslim societies, upwards of 70 percent of all newborns are born with birth defects, typically developmental, yet often physical, directly associated with being imbred. its just the facts.

2

I have never heard a case where incest has truly been consentual. No coercion, no power dynamics, bit two adults being intimate without any shady behavior. I don't believe it's possible, especially considering the biological imperative that programs us to view close family as non-sexual only. I think those who some how view close family as sexual have a wiring issue in the brain. If there was an existing case where it was close relatives, started in adulthood and was completely emotionally healthy, maybe that would be ok. I just don't see that existing in real life.

3

Mostly this has to do with power balance in a relationship. Obviously, mileage may vary depending on the two people in question. In order for it to be consensual, both parties have to be of proper age, but that's just where the consent discussion starts. There could be a lot of other things going on. Perhaps one is manipulating the other, maybe one is older, or can use guilt over a family situation, or one is struggling and the other has resources to spare. Even if there were nothing biologically wrong with the situation, there are way too many things that could cause an imbalance of power, which is the root of virtually all abuse cases.

1

I do not see it as being in the realm of moral choice.
Nature generally makes such unions less favored among a realm of choices.
To the extent that it does not, it is allowed.
Social norms generally amplify natural tendencies.
As I am adopted, I may have already had sex with or declined to have sex with a sibling. Nature does not care and mostly I do not either.

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